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General DiscussionSrsly getting disappointed at Divine 5 players. The amount of bad pl...

Srsly getting disappointed at Divine 5 players. The amount of bad plays seen in this match is just off the charts. in General Discussion
Vertoxity

    While I'm aware they are better than me, because obviously since they are 1000+ MMR above me, there's nothing else to say on that topic but just that they are better.

    I STILL can't believe how many bad calls divine 5 players made in this match.

    https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3911454941

    SF was like top 4000 and Clinkz was top 3000.

    We played 2 matches together, the first one I failed to win my offlane with Cent against MK and Jakiro and it's most likely my fault that we lost it,because I underperformed against Divine 5 1000 rank player.

    However this game I want to talk about it just on a whole different level.

    We were laning into our favor big time:

    MID: SF vs Ember
    Offlane: Me(BB) vs Lesh
    Safelane: Mostly Enigma offlane vs Clinkz and CM, Tusk and WD were either top trying to kill me or mid, killing SF.

    What was embarrassing from the very start of this match is the fact that SF died multiple times(3 I think) to Tusk just because he wasn't paying atention to minimap. Allright, I guess everyone makes mistakes like that - but I just find it embarrassing that someone who's supposed to be GOOD at this game makes the same mistake TWICE.

    The next big issue I have is actually not getting BKB after euls/blink and actually RUSING HEX? The whole enemy team is based upon magical damage, SF decides to go and get HEX in 36 min instead of WAY faster BKB? And ofc, everytime he tried to do something he died because of lack of BKB. His idea was that with HEX, he can pick people off? That's what he said, basically. I guess Euls and Blink aren't enough for that purpose only.

    Talking about him dying in worst places on the map, being unware where he's not supposed to be and being unable to position himself so enigma can't blackhole him even tho I've told him several times to actually BACK off, only to few minutes later we both get cought by BH because he's refusing to listen.

    I would understand these mistakes if actually we were playing against some huge draft disadvantage, but the fact we've won all the lanes and we had such an ez time ending this is what bugs me.

    Then I should talk about Clinkz. This guy actually titled me the most. Taking the aegis and dying 2 times with it just so he can kill Tuskar(which he didnt, because he was tuneling vision 24/7, not paying atention on where the fuck is rest of the enemy team)

    Then, both SF and Clinkz, several times, refused to actually PUSH and went to fight for whatever reason.

    I sugest watching the whole replay, just so you can see that being divine doesnt' acutally mean you're good at this game, apprently.

    19

      do u think divine 5 players are good at dota or what,its all about who sucks less

      Vertoxity

        ^

        Is it wrong to think so? They are supposed to be good. I can understand making mistakes, even top tier players do make them, however, the amount of mistakes those divines did is actually more comparable to my own bracket, and not to the bracket that's supposed to be noticably better.

        Not to mention SF is like 5900 MMR and Clinkz is 5500.

        Feachairu

          yes its wrong to think so

          .duDudu

            EU 6k = SEA 3K

            A̶𝖘𝖍𝖊𝖘

              How do you say sf won his lane , when he went 0-3 something? prolly he stopped giving a f about the game after that.

              Vertoxity

                The lane was draw, so he didn't lost it for sure.

                100% sure he didn't stopped giving fucks. I can assure you of that.

                Jacked

                  It's not that his item choice was bad. Or that his play was bad. Although it is possible explanation. But the more likely reason is that his team weren't on the same level as him, strategically. For example maybe he recognised his role in the game to win it was to go for pickoffs and create space. but his legend teammates kept trying to fight instead of having the same aligned goals. And he was forced into a bad position by the bad plays of his team.

                  Getting Dove but dying because of no tp response. Maybe his expectation is that if there was support rotation, things could be easily turned. Things like that. It's more a mismatch of strategic expectations. Legend players thinking the way to win is "x" and the divines are thinking "y". Sometimes better players get jebaited by the shit plays of legends. It looks like they suck, but you have to look deeper.

                  Having said all that, I'm not saying anything about your game because I didn't watch it. Just what I think is the likely explanation for what you experienced.

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                  SASA POPOVIC

                    Im super serious, Hanyolo is Purge gamers level analyst! Thats why im advocating party MMR gap should be narrowed to 1k mmr apart among teammates, playstyles are far too different for lower playes to follow up.

                    Vertoxity

                      ^

                      I think the only legit part of your post is where you say that you didn't watch the game.

                      Because if you did, you would understand that you're most likely wrong. I say most likely, becuase I still can't say I'm right for sure since I'm noticably worse than him.

                      But to me this plays he and his friend Clinkz did are questionable for me, coinsidering the fact even tho I might not be the best player to actually critisize them, I did get some coaching frrom players far better than me and them included, so, coinsidering they are divine 5 superiors, I can't say I'm concivned that they played good and lost because of bad team mates.

                      DC.MASON

                        yep

                        and you are still going to consistently lose against this bad players

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                        SASA POPOVIC

                          You sound very conflicted like you would like to bash them but you are afraid yoir bash wont stand because your current medal doesnt give you merits to do so? But also you are asking "pat on the back" from community because you think you are on par with those players?

                          Dont ask acknowledgement on the internet, its toxic environment, you gonna have a bad time.

                          Jacked

                            But I don't need to watch the game to understand that he had a game plan like going hex instead of bkb. And the merits of which are not obvious. And it's not as straightforward to say it was wrong. Even if you think the obvious choice is bkb.

                            What stands out though, is that you think bkb is obvious and the 5k player thought otherwise. Mismatch of strategy. And obviously a game you played is going to be subject to your own biases. So there's that as well that you should acknowledge.

                            Having said that I'm not passing any judgement because I didn't watch the game.

                            Vertoxity

                              @ Harold

                              I'm not trying to bash them or flame them, I think I'm past that finally.

                              Just trying to see if I'm actually mistaken here, because to me it seems like divine 5 players should be good, way better than me, the skill difference should be very high.

                              And I'm kinda of disappointed that they've made, what looks like to me at least, some very basic mistakes I've been trying to fix myself for quite some times now.

                              Also, I don't really mind if someone's going to come and flame me, because I think I'm more than capable when it comes to dealing with insecure people in general, or people that are actually just here to flame someone out of pure egoism problem.

                              So I'm actually aware of things like: "even tho they did bad they are better than you" - I'm just trying to understand why we lost such an easy game, but I guess it's because they are also facing their supperiors - for exampe, Ember was top 1000 and they just failed to deal with him..

                              @ Arin

                              I mean, I'm aware that I'm going to consistenly lose again them - because they are clearly better than me for a reason. I'm just kinda of disappointed that they aren't as good as I thought, basically.

                              Doesn't mean they are not capable of destroying things in my bracket.. obivously.

                              @ HalYolo

                              Just because he had a game strategy it doesn't always proves to be correct one. Even tho he's better than me, I can still be correct sometimes, because as we already learned, everyone makes bad plays.

                              SASA POPOVIC

                                Okay, so div 5 players are not Miracle level dota stars, more in news at 11!

                                Vertoxity

                                  Haha.

                                  Well obviusly not, I'm just surprised they've made some questionable mistakes that should'be be happening in the first place for their skill level.

                                  Or at least I thought so. Anyways, since no one will bother to actually download and watch the replay, what's the point.

                                  SASA POPOVIC

                                    Yeah acording to your opinion, wich is irelevant since you have 0 experience from that bracket, we are all humans we wont play each match at our best, plus its party MMR. You cant judge whole bracket and make this silly threads based upon your inadequate experience you will just look like a horny teenager who just hit puberty.

                                    100% WINRATE MASTER

                                      sf with euls and dagger is overrated build anyway.

                                      inx4c

                                        just divine 5 is awful and u are too bad to realize what they did anyway to get to divine 5
                                        with tusk and wd roaming they WILL kill sf regardless of his positioning, even under his own tower
                                        looking at the draft ur team is can never fight their heroes 5v5
                                        and ur team has no lotus or force :DD
                                        anyway the only way u win that game is winning lanes ultra hard and snowballing out of control
                                        later only with pickoffs and split pushing

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                                        Feachairu

                                          you would be surprised how much unreliable my 1,3k rank friend is

                                          Vertoxity

                                            If they are capable of playing this bad, I can only imagine how much worse everyone below 5k is.. Me included, ofc

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                                            inx4c

                                              i didnt watch the game but their idea to get items to pickoff people was correct and clinkz tunnelvisioning tusk
                                              coz if clinkz goes on anyone else tusk saves them

                                              Vertoxity

                                                ^

                                                I didnt think of it that way, I guess it makes sense, but does it really justify trying to kill him even tho they are 5 maning most of the time? I mean the chance of killing him at cost of dying yourself..

                                                Idk.

                                                Feachairu

                                                  my friend=
                                                  i lose mid,he safelane. goes no impact for full game and we lost
                                                  he goes mid,i support= goes no impact for full game even won lane or whatever unless probably the enemy has 1k gold at min 10 or something,then we lost

                                                  at least when i won mid the guy does his job tho

                                                  inx4c

                                                    i think at that point the game was really hard to win
                                                    cuz at that point you needed to have other lanes shoved in at all times when they were 5 manning and when they got split to deal with lanes then u can get pickoff and do something
                                                    fighting into 5 man you had so many things to deal with

                                                    Mlada i Luda

                                                      i dont need to see medal at all, if someone pick sf mid into a tusk roaming enemy hero, i know that guys is a moron and he is gonna feed for sure. a decent player will jsut pick a mid hero that can deal with tusk ganks, it doesnt matter if he dies or not, even if he not dies ( the only way is for him to play scared when tusk is missing), he still gonna loose mid cause of that.

                                                      so yeah 5k are not good they jsut suck less compare to 4k and 2k-se , and thats mostly mechanicly. you are overstimating them way to much, they are almost same deadbrain conceptually same as 2k-3k players.

                                                      p.s if you play dota enough you are suposed to know that sf players are deadbrains mostly of the time, just look sf winrate, in all brackets even in 5k+. its around 44%

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                                                      inx4c

                                                        ye u can get to 5k by just getting better at mechanics pretty much

                                                        睡眠-

                                                          being coached by cokkie doesnt mean youre good either. countless times he has dissed me for "non-meta heroes/item builds" only for that shit to become viable in pro-dota some time later.

                                                          Cursed

                                                            Losing the early game pretty much means you are delaying your inevitable lose in that game but that Clinkz did his best that game imo.

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                                                            flourishing new leaf

                                                              First of all you stacked. That is a whole different game.
                                                              Second, clinkz is a bad carry, you were doomed from the start.
                                                              3rd,sf is an account buyer and probably scripter too.
                                                              4th, they had you on the team so they were even more fucked.

                                                              What was the question again?
                                                              And you think this is a representative sample?

                                                              Vertoxity

                                                                @ Snake

                                                                I've never said I'm good. Please, read what I wrote. :)

                                                                Mlada i Luda

                                                                  being coached by cuki , loooooool.

                                                                  Jacked

                                                                    Bad plays are one thing. Everyone makes bad plays due to al sorts of reason. The 5ks on the losing side will always look like idiots. Even when pros are getting beat by other pros it looks so obvious why they are losing sometimes.

                                                                    But saying they have the wrong strategy is a whole other thing. Actually I would say it is pretty safe to say that 5ks would definitely have the more correct Strategy, even with all the misplays. You're probably saying things out of ignorance when you think they should have played in a different way. They know how to win Dota 10x more than you so that's why they are 5k. Doesn't mean they don't lose with 3ks. You can't account for everything.

                                                                    A̶𝖘𝖍𝖊𝖘

                                                                      Gonna watch this game later today to see for myself.

                                                                      lesserafim

                                                                        🆗🆒.

                                                                        quest to questing

                                                                          you don't look at 1 game and decide whether or not a player is bad,, some people have bad days and others good

                                                                          i've lost to legends at mid and won divs easily

                                                                          does that mean those legends were div level

                                                                          no

                                                                          A̶𝖘𝖍𝖊𝖘

                                                                            ^Vertox has a history of creating such threads :D, leave it to him :)

                                                                            quest to questing

                                                                              https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3912751996

                                                                              i mean look i crush a 6.4k morph (rank 300) and 6.7k qop

                                                                              https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3869401880

                                                                              and here i lose a normal skill game

                                                                              sometimes people aren't trying to win but it doesn't mean their bad

                                                                              Vertoxity

                                                                                I know. I never said that they don't deserve their rating. I was just surprised how much they underperfomed in that match.

                                                                                Even Cookie said the did some major mistakes.. I guess you're right. Being consistent is hard. Hell, I know it best. :)

                                                                                quest to questing

                                                                                  haHAA i know that more than anything

                                                                                  when i lose to a legend 3 mid im like what the fuck is happening asdfaf

                                                                                  offlaner

                                                                                    I feel bad

                                                                                    twitch.tv/afeect

                                                                                      the lul thread

                                                                                      faw

                                                                                        nobody is good in this game, very simple

                                                                                        Eddie

                                                                                          Trash players everywhere - db forum

                                                                                          Northern_Eclipse

                                                                                            Nobody is good at this game, there are only people who are less bad.

                                                                                            Feachairu

                                                                                              but i'm so good