i didnt read post but whatever you said it better be asking to reduce hits to kill these things
wow thats a long ass post. First of all I agree that zues is a bit OP in terms of dmg. thats why hes a famous pub stomper and have very high win rate. but he isnt as hard to kill or control as you think. in fact theres a bunch of heroes and items that can deal with him. one of these is HoD/Pipe since he has purely Magic damage unlike others int heroes like Qop/Storm/Lina who also have high Phyical dmg output. This will negate his dmg output by a large % Theres also Malevolence for the obvious reason and is much more effective since you can very rarely see Zues buy Linkens or Bkb. As for heroes who can deal with him with ease theres Huskar who will reduce zues to a creeps with his massive magic resistance same with AM. And for the less obvious Pugna who can punish Zues's mana consuming Skills. But since you specifically metioned Nimbus. Ill recommend Force staff/Bkb/Hood. Although all you really need when fighting Zues is Bkb and he will have 0 dmg against you
as for weaver. His first skill isnt really impressive compared to his other 3 skills and falls off easily in mid-late game. You mentioned having problem with his 1st skill in early game. But his it isnt really Maxed out until lvl 11 or so. by then you should have enough survivability or escape and as you said you shouldnt fight him 1v1. Ofcourse you shouldnt go hitting the bug without getting to safety first. Hes fairly hard to catch like storm but not as hard to kill as Morphling. His biggest counter is Void with his 2nd skill and BS with rupture.
I guess what Im saying is its much easier to Counter pick against these heroes or have Item build specifically to counter them instead of having to adapt your whole draft and strategy against them.
i didnt read post but whatever you said it better be asking to reduce hits to kill these things
you're an idiot sandwich and I don't need a reason for calling you that
I mean, I haven't played a real ranked game in ages, but I've spammed Weaver before it was cool and it honestly feels like he just thrives in this dual lanes meta. Wherever you go safelane or offlane, you can dominate your lane and even if you don't, you won't (or shouldn't) lose hard and you still have another core to not compromise your mid to late game.
Weaver couldn't deal alone or with a single teammate against trilanes and, specially before talents, his lategame wasn't good enough to warrant protecting him with 2 supports.
Sure, bugs are great, but in previous metas, you could just kill Weaver and his teammate if he had any and then shake off the bugs, it helps that some heroes that greatly fuck with him are either not in the meta or can be safely skipped by switching lanes.
I don't know, but I feel that if the next patch somehow forces the laning stage to change, that may be enough to deal with Weaver.
Nothing for Zeus though, his winrate was already skyhigh without Nimbus. Hero just doesn't give a fuck about metas or changes. At this point, only reworking him could do something for poor pubs.
nimbus only problem is that you need like 9999999999999999999 hits if you ranged hero srsly
nimbus only problem is that you need like 9999999999999999999 hits if you ranged hero srsly
And I'll need only 1 hit with my amazing masterball to get you you bloody starmie
Whenever I play against zeus I focus on items that give HP. Bracelet as supp and heart as carry. It helps.
Whenever I play against zeus I focus on items that give HP. Bracelet as supp and heart as carry. It helps.
Except zeus' passive is a % hp removal spell which hard counters stacking HP so you would be far better off investing in magic resistance.
I think it is generally a bad sign of sceptre balance when it is not a situational choice. Same with talents - if a particular talent/aghs is being picked up in more than, say, 70% of games the hero/aghs should be tweaked.
I think it is generally a bad sign of sceptre balance when it is not a situational choice. Same with talents - if a particular talent/aghs is being picked up in more than, say, 70% of games the hero/aghs should be tweaked.
I disagree with this as far as aghs goes - a lot of heroes have items they'd really like to buy every game if possible. The issue is obviously that zeus' aghs is so strong that there's no item in the game that can improve the hero even remotely as much as that aghs purchase can. Talents, however, yes, if one talent is overwhelmingly good then it's really not a choice a lot of the time.
It's only really Zeus and Invoker where pretty much every build has aghs in. I'm actually ok for aspirational OP aghs for supports because they do have to make a decision between support items and greed but not for cores - that's pretty much what Icefrog has done anyway such as indirectly nerfing Meepo's aghs by stat sharing from level 1. Pretty much the point of dota is to make the game as complicated as possible!
I mean bugs themselves dont actually do that much damage. Many heroes can just run or can kill them fast enough that they're not that big of a deal in the lane.
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Hear me out, we all know those two heroes too well being really good without teamwork. Plus, they are flexible in every stage of the game. The problem is, in sub-divine brackets where teamwork is not necessarily very efficient, those heroes are creating a mess. This is my personal opinion, I respect what others think, and feel free to share your thought.
First of all, lets start with zeus.
1. Zeus and the current nimbus attack rate, deal too much damage. We know zeus is great at all stages of the game. Hes excellent at farming with his arc and destroying heroes with his second spell (also revealing invis heroes). Those abilities make him really strong and there is no problem with that. His 3rd ability allows him to scale in the game against tanky heroes. Plus, since armor doesnt block magic dmg, he becomes a serious danger. With all this damage output, you add the nimbus that STUNS and attacks really fast, also revealing enemies. Knowing we are currently in a lane control/teamfight meta, the AOE of the nimbus is simply too much. Not to say that he has a global control on the map. He has way too much tools to win a game by himself. You will say ""well you just have to gank him!"" and that brings my second point.
2. He requires too much ressources to be able to contain him. Zeus is relatively tanky for an int hero. you need, in the early game, a minimum of 2 or 3 heroes. Plus, he has the ability to deward mid, making ganking a real gamble, especially under tower where he gets bonus armor added to his somewhat tankiness. The problem is, while you try to kill zeus to contain the incoming nimbus madness, some other lanes need to be dealt with and their carry is most likely free farming. 2 suports are not enough to be able to gank every where at every seconds. Moving the whole team for 1 hero leaves so much space for other enemy heroes. Oh and if you didnt bother ganking him mid, prepare yourself because everybody knows when a Zeus starts ganking level 7-8, hes is most likely going to destroy every lane he sets his foot in.
Weaver now,
1. The bugs deal too much damage and require too much hits. In the early mid game, those bugs at level 1 require 4 hits and pheonix ultimate ability at level 6 requires 5 hits to destroy. To me, killing a lvl 1 insect shouldnt be on the same level of a level 6 ability, especially when those bugs are an equivalent AOE in damage. Weaver casts her bugs, and dive you. From there, you have the choice: you stay and hit 4 times with your slow early game attack speed ; OR you run and lose a lot of hp (or die) from the bug damage (that could litteraly kill you if you dont take it off) and weaver chasing you. Wether you have a sentry down in the lane or not wont reduce the damage taken. Add a blight stone to it now. Now I know some might want to say "yeah well your suport can zone him out" or "your teammates can gank him" and this brings my second point.
2. Your teammatecould be most likely be in the same situation that you are in. He has to hit the bugs or run. He might save his own life, leave you to die, OR try to jump weaver. So yes we could have a 2v1 situation but we forget 1 thing. If both of you are focusing the weaver (and ignoring the bugs on you), you better kill him fast. We may be able to think we are less in danger, becasue we focus the weaver, BUT, in this current meta, we have 2-1-2 lanes and its about lane dominance. Which means, if weaver has a teammate, hes having the space to hurt whoever he wants, and he is probably helping killing you both. That makes 8 hits in total for the bugs and 2 enemy heroes with at least 500 hp. Oh and forget the creeps, they are busy killing the bugs, they dont care about you lol. Now take the kill bug/run scenario and add it to a 5v5 teamfight
3. In a teamfight meta like this one, the bugs have a huge impact on the fight: as long as the attack speed of your heroes is not online, those bugs are going to make a mess in damage OR in positioning. Those bugs will make the team vulnerable to AOES and initiations (teamfight meta, remember?). Its either you run and let 1 of your teammates get caught and get shredded by the enemy so you can clean the bugs OR you stay, eat the enemy initiation, which is not necessarily good.
4. Hence weaver, by his presence forces you to lock him and gives automatic space to his teammates. (free farming invoker or WK howdey)
To conclude, those heroes require a lot of coordination and strategy because of their damage output, teamfight control and their flexibility. This affects sub divine brackets, where teamwork is not at its best. Even so, adapting a whole draft and a strategy because of 1 hero gurantees automatic space for zeus or weaver's teammates, simply with the pick. You may not agree and I respect that.
Thank you for your time.