Legion Commander - Misunderstood And Misplayed?
Despite only qualifying for the Situational tier in our pub tier list, Legion Commander is definitely worth discussing. The pick rate of the hero has been on a steady rise, reaching slightly over 25%, making her the 4th most popular hero in Dota. However, her win rate cannot be called impressive, decreasing rapidly from its highest at 49% in the 2-3k bracket to 45% in the 5k+ bracket. Today, we would like to go over how to utilize the hero better, while addressing some issues players might face.
Drafting
It has been said time and time again, but it is always worth repeating: the drafting stage is important, not only for the choice of a role, but also the hero you pick for that role. More versatile players will find themselves at an even bigger advantage in this patch, since the pool of viable heroes is unquestionably larger. But when exactly do you draft 
Legion Commander?
There are a couple of drafting stage ideas that would indicate a good Legion Commander game:
Her ability to dispel stuns is among the most underrated mechanics in Dota. Being able to get rid of strong single-target disables on one of your important heroes, while remaining relatively safe from potential silences, can and will be fight-turning. 
Sacred Arrow, 
Fiend's Grip, 
Shackles and 
Primal Roar are probably the strongest disables which turn into nothing with the help of 
Press The Attack
Her outpush potential is incredibly high. Think of 
Overwhelming Odds as a smaller 
Echo Slam on a much lower cooldown with a smaller radius. The damage is lower, but when facing a pushing line-up with a lot of controlled/summoned creeps, it is probably even better—low cooldown and decent cast range allow for it to shine earlier and occasionally brighter.
The hero does very little against tanky line-ups, since almost all of her abilities work better on squishy targets. In a single teamfight she also doesn’t offer a lot in terms of damage, until very late into the game, and even this is dependent on her getting a decent early-mid game. As such, she should complement glass cannons on her team and works better against glass cannons in the enemy team. The early game of the hero is generally more utility-based.
There are certain heroes which do not necessarily have great auto-attack damage/attack speed but deal a lot of damage through melee/ranged splash attacks. Heroes like 
Ember Spirit, 
Medusa, 
Gyrocopter are all good match-ups for Legion Commander.
You don’t draft Legion Commander to jungle from level 1. She can’t contribute much to the game from the jungle and she generally can’t and shouldn’t get an early game-breaking item such as 
Mekansm because of her limited mana pool. Even the introduction of 
Iron Talon doesn’t solve the issue of having to spread skill points out for Press The Attack or 
Moment of Courage earlier in the game. Getting Overwhelming Odds maxed by level 7 is almost always a must, since otherwise the hero offers very little in the initial skirmishes.
Laning and Role
The fact that the hero should be played as a core should not raise any questions—there are better options for a support hero.
The choice of lane is also quite limited. According to global statistics jungling is by far the worst choice for the hero. The hero is also not exactly the best position one material, since her scaling is unreliable and she isn’t exactly the hardest of carries.
This leaves middle and off lanes and both have their ups and downs. The win rates for mid and off-lanes are 49% and 51% respectively.
Midlane
By far the most XP-rewarding lane is great for the hero, since she does benefit from getting her levels. While there are few matchups that can be considered to be in favor of the Legion Commander, she can stand her ground against almost any opponent and shouldn’t get harassed out of lane completely.
Mid lane and the XP advantage the midlane provides also benefit the general gameplan for the hero—getting a lot of kills in the early-mid game and snowballing from this advantage. Unlike many previously popular tempo heroes in this role, she doesn’t fall off as hard come late-game.
Moreover, midlane will generally provide more gold for the hero, since last hitting is easier against a single opponent. This would potentially lead to an earlier initiation item and higher chances of snowballing.
Offlane
The second choice, which is almost three times as popular among the players as the middle lane. Being decently tanky, it is generally hard to completely zone out an offlaning Legion Commander. Moreover, her ability to deal surprisingly high damage with Overwhelming Odds should also leash the enemy supports to their safelane core—even with a level disadvantage, the hero can be extremely strong in 1-on-1 or 1-on-2 situations.
This creates much needed space for your mid laner and it should also provide benefits in early-game skirmishes, since numerical advantage at this point is key. If the enemy supports have to make a trade-off to rotate mid and your supports feel more freedom moving around the map, it can be easy to get a decent early-game advantage from ganks or even simple zoning of the enemy mid. It is especially important if the enemy mid relies on snowballing and/or is a glass cannon.
Having lower income should also be less of a problem, if the coordination with your teammates are at a decent level. With the speed boost of Overwhelming Odds, it is quite easy to catch up to a fleeing enemy and earn extra damage in the early game.
With a couple of extra levels and/or some items such as Iron Talon, transitioning to the jungle is an option. You do not farm the jungle full-time as Legion Commander, though. Instead, it is a good way to earn money in-between duels for the next item, if the lanes are occupied by your teammates (and they can’t jungle well) and/or are too dangerous to farm in. Sometimes, giving some space to supports is also necessary—at this point the jungling efficiency is higher for you, while your supports can benefit from extra Gold/XP in lane. It is also less of a deal if your support dies in the lane, compared to a core Legion Commander—there is going to be a significant level and Net Worth difference between the two.
Item Build
Item choices are extremely important on any hero, but Legion Commander is among the hardest to make correct choices for. The reason for it is the analysis paralysis caused by the fact that when she needs to aim for late-game, she has to build-up tempo and that requires her to make mid-game item choices. When aiming for tempo-control, on the other hand, you can end up having not enough item slots later on and fail at becoming relevant late-game and/or have reduced gold efficiency due to the fact that you will need to buy/sell items.
Overall, there are only a handful of staple items for the hero and even those are somewhat situational.
Blink Dagger vs 
Shadow Blade
This first option is a lot more reliable, while the second one is better in terms of DPS. Most of the time Blink Dagger is going to be a better choice, however in certain cases Shadow Blade into 
Silver Edge is a better option. Disabling strong passives can be game-changing at any point in the game, while stats synergize extremely well with with the hero.
Blade Mail
Excellent choice against glass cannon heroes. Since the hero herself is good at dealing with those, it is generally a safe choice if and only if gotten early. An average 12 min. Blink Dagger into 16-18 min. Blade Mail is a good transition. If it is hard to get this item early, it might be a waste of money, since its efficiency is subjective to the enemy getting survivability items.
Black King Bar
This item is almost always self-explanatory. You shouldn’t be forced to get it too early though, since it makes for a huge tempo hit (4k gold for very little DPS). It also gets weaker as game progresses, so make sure you do not waste all the charges early on, especially if the early-mid game doesn’t seem to provide an opening for a convincing victory.
Assault Cuirass
One of the best items for the hero, since it incorporates high DPS and survivability, while also benefiting team. If there are no better carries for the item (other strength cores), you should aim for it relatively early.
Heaven's Halberd
A decent choice against right-clicking enemy line-ups, but offers too little DPS per gold spent. It’s better if you are frontlining, initiating, or when facing a strong ranged core. Otherwise, almost 4k gold can be spent better.
Mjollnir
One of the more underrated choices. Extremely good if there are no natural 
Diffusal Blade carriers on the enemy team (and/or purge abilities). Provides amazing DPS and scales really well. Extra points if your team has little magic damage, since it is unlikely the enemy is going for a Pipe. Even better, if the enemy has a lot of core heroes which primarily rely on Armor/Evasion rather than HP for survivability (most agility cores).
Final Thoughts
I have been saying that the hero will become a staple by the end of 6.85 due to the rising popularity of both Broodmother and Beastmaster, but the statistics prove me wrong. Nonetheless, the hero has a lot to offer and is situationally strong in many lineups--there are games where the Legion Commander can be the best choice by far.
Her low win rate, to a certain degree, comes from the Dota 1 habits of jungling the hero. In most other lanes she is a solid pick and should not be underrated. I would be cautious to call her the next big thing after being proved wrong in 6.85, but this time around she has better chances to become popular.
LC jungle sounds absolutely ridiculous to me especially how people go lvl 1. I personally love her as a laning hero due to high ms and damage with overwhelming odds. Plus leveling in lane is better than jungle.
@OP, you forgot one item that scales stupidly well with Legion; Daedalus. The crit chance scales with her damage, and there is a chance her Moment of Courage Proc will crit as well, giving you 85% lifesteal on that crit. I agree that she is very utility based in the early game, but late game she is meant to take one player out of the fight. Daedalus is a great item for it, and even Crystalys if you just want value crit damage.
you should put in some heroes that sync with lc. Potenially sky
Chutiya
I like it how all these 2k ppl disagree wiht this article and dont get it that if u go for lc jungle u will just lose ur safe lane and ur mid lane if the enemy team knows what its doing :D
but how should they know. bec on 2k no1 knows how to punish a greedy lineup. so the jungle lc works for them
People should never Jungle with this hero, every 2-3k needs to read this.
Well Noted....
you sir have no idea about dota
don't you ever post anything on this site pls cause my eyes bleeding and some young people may actually believe in that article
i am officially mad that people who doesn't know anything about dota allow yourself to post some stuff like they do
@Wisdom silver edge does not disable mana shield because its not a passive, its a non targeted toggle spell.
Jungle LC is beyond gamelosing. Nothing kills my motivation to win a game more than seeing someone highlight LC and mark the jungle. Even if they don't go through with it, the fact that they even considered it tells you what kind of player they are.
You should just play LC as a P3 utility hero with a blink, blade mail, ac, vladi etc..and try to lockdown the enemy's P1 in teamfights. That's all.
I totally agree lc is of the best heroes on dota she is one of my top one hero I have low winrate but I will increase it those who don't know how to play lc they go woods ark which is so wrong she can farm woods when lanes occupied and her ultimate is in cd
So most people who purely train on LC has a winrate of 55-60%. That means there's people with 25-30% winrate to balance this out to 50-51% winrate. So in a sense tons of bad LCs out there.
Jungle LC = Report . buying smurf account does not make you pro. and there are a lot of great offlaners if some one can solo thn go jungle if no one can thn go lane.
@Dominus i know Silver Edge does not disable mana shield . Its True LC cant kill fat medusa late game no matter how strong she is. Medusa is too power full.
http://www.dotabuff.com/heroes/legion-commander/guides
check this top two guides are jungle. and those who said i have normal skill games. thats why im in favor of jungle should tell those people who are playing jungle with very high skill . that they are noobs lc is not for jungle.
Why do you keep referring to 2-3k, meet the top (according to DB rating) non-pro player LC: http://www.dotabuff.com/players/103555153/matches?hero=legion-commander
Guess what, he lanes her in jungle
I really wonder how long it's going to take for Valve or even the community to realize why people choose poor junglers like LC. Seeing as I've played this tune for more than a year and people just go 'it's just the way it is' after I put out tons of stats and arguments I don't see change but ughhhhhh... it's so bloody obvious that something is wrong yet the old guard is making sure nothing ever happens to fix the problem. Not even a compromise. Then moan about people jungling with LC. No offence but duh guys. Of course people are going to do that.
People play poor junglers to get out of playing support. It's because support is completely undesirable to play for most people. Yes some like it. I know. That doesn't change the fact that on average out of the top 30 played heroes only 3-5 of them are supports and some are like Earthshaker who have significant play in the offlane core role. It is simply not fun to play it for most people. Yes it wins games due to selfless play but Dota is a game and most people play games for fun. Even if you win a game it might be one where you had to constantly buy sentries wards to defuse techies, yes you win but you don't get to do much beyond that or far more commonly, you are playing with a carry who is extremely weak in the early game and then cleans up late. You set up that victory sure but don't get to do much of the 'fun' or visibly influential things yourself. It's basically playing servant.
Then of course, playing a sole support while some guy goes jungle with LC is REALLY not fun at all, especially if your carry and/or mid are completely abysmal, again, even if you are able to salvage a win. Most tend to agree it's harder then most core roles. So you've got all these negatives, with very few positives (for most people and stats show it) and then wonder why people jungle LC even though it's pretty common knowledge its terrible? Please.
Until this problem is recognized (or mostly recognized by 3-4k mmr): LC is still just pubstar cause of her variable adapt ... and dream was never come true at Ranked.
Anyhow, she was and now is the only reason why I still play this game. Hope valve will bring back this hero for the right role before I move on to do somethings else.
actually rushing talon at level 1 + tangos and only farming the big camp next to T2 tower and medium right next to it, sticking to these 2 camps, u get more GPM and EXP than your mid invoker with midas :)
10 min TOPS (sometimes even less if u successfully gank the mid lane) dagger and pt guarantee
Do not pick LC vs Medusa. Duel does not dispel Stone Gaze buff. As soon as you show up all Medusa has to do is press R. Then your options are try to run away and probably die, or duel and die.
You all should do your homework better, LC forest is viable:
Talon+Tango->Stout shield->Dagger, you get it in like 8 mins and then start helping the team
You skill 3-1-3-1-1-4-1 and that's how you get a lvl 7 LC with dagger and first spell max
The only thing is to have a good draft with her and have 2-3 squishi targets in their team
@Go Forest Noob It works, but it makes your lanes weaker, as your forced into a 1-1-1-2 format, making your offlane or safelane alone, depending of where people decide to go. It also risks them pushing/punishing your greed for jungling. Most jungling legions go midas or some other items then go into blink/sb, not helping their team and risking more of their early game. In low level games though, it won't get punished as hard, but in higher level play, it will get countered.
Pshaw.... Jungle LC is totally viable for like 70% of the people playing DOTA. (ie. 0k - 3k MMR). Those of you playing high skill and above seem to forget you are actually the MINORITY... scrubs like me are the MAJORITY! :P
Sure OCCASIONALLY you will get punished for it when your noob teammates feed ALL lanes, but I've won many a game from Jungle. I usually hit 6 not too long after my midlaner and just hunt for good Duel opportunities.
I'd like to point out that I would infinitely prefer MID lane as LC dominates from there... but unfortunately in scrub tier Dota there is always a couple of retards who don't communicate at all... ignore my early call of "mid" (don't call mid themselves either) and ignore my mid map icon during pick phase... pick pudge/SF/QoP and proceed to DEMAND mid. In those cases I'm like "well fuck you then... i'm jungling".
LC's biggest weakness is stupid teammates who stand and WATCH while I'm dueling at my low level's. They seem to think since it's my ulti CLEARLY I can solo take down any hero from 100%HP in a duel at level 6. (And YES i pinged the enemy AND typed "ganking top").
By the way this is not my only account I have over 300 LC games across 3 accounts.
Lol, this is completely wrong.
The winrate / lane presence shows that although she is WAY more used as a jungler, the winrate difference is marginal. Someone using a LC mid or offlane normaly knows better what position he is playing (or have a good sup, in mid case), therefore LC on higher skill brakets can be used as other positions if the team knows what it is doing.
As is now, the vast majority of the games it is used as a jungler and the win rate is only 1% different from safe lane and 2% for offlane, but with a higher XPM and GPM compared to offlane and a similar KDR as a Safelane farmer. Therefore having the same impact, but freeing the lane for better cores, as LC should be treated as a ganker/initiator who can (in rare ocasions) carry a late game.
LC is seriously op but it is also favourite to trash players.
that article is good
LC is alternative hero
u always can find arogant player like "mid or feed" "solo save line" "solo offline" "carry or feed".
dont compare LC with 1 vs 5 or 1 vs 9
they just hater here...
look like them has realy bad game and slove his problem 1 vs 9
99,999% of dudes that pick LC to jungle don't even know what they have to do there.
Iron talon is crap. with axe and shield LC farm faster, and if dude know how to farm in jungle his hp will above 60% stable. + buy ward for first 7 min. phase boots best choice, get lvl 6 and go help lines(before that heal midder, help safe lane, pick rune when stucking neutral camps if it's needed)
shadow balde (need some brains to use that properly) is better that dagger in all aspects.
item for 75 gold counters dagger + u have lower dps. LC's ulti is target disable(it also diasables LC), so any other initiator with dagger such as slardar, tide, ES make more profit from that item. Early 5 man dota also makes LC dagger useles.
You have to buy sentry against SB LC or buy gem in ~15 minutes and start 5 man dota, but SB gives her some dmg a as, so i think SB is better choice.
I play in china, LC dagger here is realy useless T_T
Don't think press the attack can stop fiend's grip? Surely that would make a joke out of Bane!
@Wisdom
Buying - no, smurfing during christmas break - yes.
Yet again, core junglers are generally a subpar choice.
As has been stated numerous times before:
- It leaves the team with a solo support, which will be starved of gold and cant afford the items to scale with the game.
- In case you already had a greedy mid and safelane, the jungle is supposed to work as their farm accelerator. Put a farming core in jungle and you take that possibility away. If the game is even that now means 3 normally farmed cores on the opposite side with 2 normally farmed supports, versus 4 comparatively starved cores (that usually needs items, lc does) and a dirt poor support. However this doesnt mean shit in low skilled games since people dont know how to farm well anyways.
- Speaking anecdotally (there are no stats available for this), 8 min blink almost never happens in higher skilled games, unless the enemy team are idiots as well and picks a greedy jungler. Instead what occurs is their supports and mid punishing lc directly by warding off her camps and/or ganking her into oblivion. Alternatively, if they have good pushers, they take down 1-6 towers while lc is afk farming and useless to the team. Great, now you either have an lc that remains a meele creep for 15 minutes or you have no towers.
- You utterly fuck all your lanes in case something goes bad. Why? Well, early on you only have a solo support to rotate in to gank and counter gank. LC jungle is high risk and low reward.
- Lets also talk about the winrate, since it seems some people cant tell the difference between winrate changes in percentage and percentage points. Jungle winrate is 47,22%, mid winrate is 51,31%. The difference is 4,09 percentage points, but the percentual difference (ergo your increased chance of fucking up the game) is 7,96%.
- Finally, the biggest problem with LC jungle isnt LC herself. Its the selfish people that picks her. The douchebag kind of guy that last picks her because he is "too good to play support". Thats her biggest problem, and thats why i report close to 90% of the jungle LCs in my games.
TL:DR. LC jungle can work, if the enemy team is idiots (ergo feeding, drafting horribly or jungling themselves), otherwise it will most likely lose you the game. Its irrelevant that some of you might have decent winrates with jungle LC, because her abysmal AVERAGE winrate of 47,22% means that there is a great number of people that loses most of their lc games.
I don't get it why people cry lc is not a jungle hero. Okay lc may not be a jungle hero but hey at least it works for some people in certain mmr brackets. Just don't play lc as jungle if you think she isn't a jungler. No one is forcing you to play her as jungler. Smh Lc mid with soul ring is hard to outlane and sometimes afk jungle to rush 8-10mins blink destroys the opponents game. Provided your team backs you up which doesn't often happen in lower skill brackets
Also LC debuff works on everything from stuns to huskar's fire or even ion shell. Except unpurgeable skills like maledict
@Netherdrake LC does nut purge huskar burning spears.
i think the fact a big majority plays her on the jungle it means she needs a Bloodseeker treatment. Bloodseeker is a shit hero, but he is definitely one of the best junglers in the game with Iron Talon.
Her winrate is low simply because Jungle LC is very popular in every tier.
So the only way to fix this is by making her a better jungler. The people wont start playing her differently just because someone says so. Unfotunately jungle LC is here to stay. So the only way to buff her is making her as good as Bloodseeker jungle.
That would make it acceptable for her to Jungle. Since she can get levels fast and also would free up a slot on offlane for a true offlaner to shine.
This is bullshit. I can always use legion to get iron talon to farm at level 1. N get shadow blade or blink dagger by the time of 8 mins or even before. By the time, she has already level 6. She can gank easily compared to if u stay in the lane dude. Bcoz you can't promise yourself to get farm from laning.
However, it's very depending on situation too. This article is not completely wrong but part of it.
Even go jungle is a good choice to buy LC core item(blink or shadow) but why don't think about your teammate. Let think, when do you need blink if you go with Tusk? When do you need shadow blade if you go with Mirana? When do you need Blademail if you go with Necrophos or lina? Team play or solo play? This article said LC can do good in lane with Overwhelming if you pick LC to fight summoner(include mirror) such as Bloodmother or Beast master or PL, that true. Moment of courage help you stay on lane, Overwhelming harass your enemy out of lane. Mana trouble? If you go mid you can buy Bottle or you have Crystal Maiden in your team. How about duel + froze field.
Team play is more important than your ability + items. This is Dota.
I agree but.. I always use LC when we are 5 party. I trust them and I go to jungle. In jungle.. No one could distract you. Esp if your enemy's are noobs. LC is better in midlane and jungle
lol seriously it depends on how you played it
No one seems to realize that you can change lanes mid game. My best results with LC are mid lane for awhile to get to level 6 or so and then jungle the close camps to the mid lane for a few more levels to get a game appropriate item and then go ganking. Getting a replacement in mid to help that hero catch up on Xp or get ahead more really helps your team. Obvious mistakes by the other team are the only time you should try to gank before duel is learned. With random teammates you can get screwed pretty hard if no one ever helps you win a duel. You can get killed right after meeting most successful duels and still carry pretty hard 5-6 duel wins gets more damage than even the best items at 20-25 minutes. I like the simple life steal items to help jungle continuously, but you have to stay involved with some ganking and pushing.
Jungle LC is one of my favorite things to play against. I was wondering how successful it was so I checked out my stats and I have a 61% win rate against LC (I'm actually a slightly under .500 player, so 61% is pretty good for me). I don't know the breakdown of jungle vs. laning LC's, but I'm guessing the vast majority I've faced are in the jungle.
Go offlane support and a few minutes into the game just go cruise the jungle looking for trouble. Sometimes if LC is really low life you can get a kill, but even if you just throw out a nuke/slow and harass a little bit it sends LC back to base and screws up their progression. I play a lot of veno, and he is really good at this. And when I see a barefoot jungler with no boots... that just makes my day! I see a lot of people lauding the merits of their 8 minutes blink dagger. Yeah... that doesn't happen on my watch. And anyone who tries to get really crazy and go dagger before boots is a dead man when I catch him with neither.
Shutting down an enemy jungler has become my favorite thing to do in Dota. I don't know why I never see anyone else doing it (in my bracket anyway), although, to be fair, I should have thought of it earlier myself. I suspect that's why you seldom see jungling in pro games (other than enigmas and chens, who you don't want to mess with 1v1 in their jungle); it's just way too easy to shut down. Just one low level support with boots can chase you right out of the woods or even kill you.
For everyone who is fed up with their teammates picking bad junglers, the solution is to ruthlessly punish every jungler you play against. If this happened every game, people would stop running these strats. They're only picking them because too many people let them get away with it. Instead of complaining go get dirty in that jungle with them and they'll find it isn't so fun after all. Obviously, when your team has a jungler you have to hope it works, but you gotta think long term here. If jungle pickers get crushed (or at least relentlessly bothered and delayed) over and over a significant number of them will quit doing it. Plus it's hella fun.
As I'm not a jungler myself so I can't say from experience, but I imagine the thing they hate the most is some uppity interloper waltzing into their jungle and attacking them when they've already got their hands full with the jungle creeps.
I used to build her items according to SlashStrike's guide, similar to yours here. But that item build really doesn't mesh well in this 5v5 meta. You cast a bunch of buffs and if you don't manage to catch out someone with your Duel all your items and PtA are on cooldown.
Nowadays I see Duel as a way to get damage for lategame and just build her like an Agility carry, going mid > Bottle > Treads > Drums > SnY > Basher > BKB > Abyssal > AC/Mjolnir > Skadi/Satanic. I don't even bother with Blink or SB anymore since LC is such a racecar. Which was another problem with the old build, after you Blink Duel someone LC becomes a liability, prone to kiting and runs slow.