General Discussion10 Min Free Farm Training

Getting creep kills in hardlane is easier because they will be quite far away from your tower. And yes you should get Morph at level 1 unless you are getting ganked.

On a solo lane top? I wouldn't ever skill Morph at the beginning

BUT WHAT DID YOU GET ON THE FIFTH RUN????

WE MUST KNOW!

If you really want to train your last hit power. pick a hero with low base damage and bad attack animation. clinkz would be perfect example. dont buy any stat boosting item or don't put level points.
Or pick morphling and morph strength

I thought the general idea was to do it without any items/skills to help you improve
I do around 50 with sf mid, no items, skill
Not very good, i know :(

<meow> is it? i'm dumbfounded if that is the case. but that's a very good learning.

<hellraiser> <Viruser> I don't like the idea of having no item and hero w/ bad attack animation.
What I want to practice is more of familiarity on specific heroes' last hitting and farming.

<.:ne:. Monkeh> I have yet to do my last one :p

Naix no items , no skill points 74-76 last hits in 3 attempts in a row... too ez

@blackxargon
last-hitting with 72 base damage or AM which is easy to last hit due to his quick attack animation and normal base damage is not challenging at all.

last hitting with treant 80/80

srs

rly srs

Try last hitting with CM without skills and items.

<tonythepman> how about the denies?

<hell_raiser> you must be a good player already, or i'm just really bad. anyways, to me it will be challenging as long as I don't reach an average of 70.

I got 77 Lasthits with SF free farm no items 5 times in a row :D. Keep up your hard work and soon you will consistently get 70+ !

77 in 10 min? Do you even bother to deny?

Yeah ofc about 45-50 each time.

I don't believe you rainbow. If you are so good at last hitting, why is your kda and win rate so low?

@Rainbow

lol 77-50 cs in 10 min, post a screenshot if u want ppl to belive u
a pro person gets around 100 creeps (lh+deny)
wtf

There are 82 creeps available so there is no way the 'pro person' could kill 100 unless some one stacked woods for them and it is a hero which is able to farm these stacks.

lol u dont understood the rules of that game bro, its 0 item, 0spell and then u lh for 10 min
and no one should miss a single cs if he only kill his creep, the goal of this 'training' is to learn to control ur lane lhing+denying. if u just lh there is no point

@Bad to the bone It's 100 with denies + LH.

http://i.imgur.com/pJpfIEq.jpg

next xboct right here ^

I thought it was no items.

Also another thing is, when he buys that RoH and PMS, he can just pull the creeps away from his own creeps and tower and kills them easily. Screenshot doesn't show that. (just a tip, need videos)

l2p :\

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ABNUSndcnI

Guys, you are not allowed to buy anything else other than your starting items.

And yes, this is about both Last Hit and deny..

If anyone wants to train with me, just add me up: BlackXargon

the practice is without any items or skill points.

nope.. although that could be the most difficult way to do LH and Deny.
I'm not convinced that it's a "game like" scenario.
i.e. The most common problem in last hitting is doing it under the tower.
If you get to practice this with how you would standardly do it in a cm game then you would be able to apply it directly (HP left for you to LH a creep) because you know your damage output, attack animation, etc.

My general guidelines in doing this are:
1) Buy your starting item as you would in a CM game
2) level up your skill as you would in a CM game
3) Not allowed: Tanking of creep wave so that it won't push to tower not allowed
4) Not allowed to buy anything else other than your starting items:

Trained this some time ago. Average on any carry hero ~75-77.

I am not a pro player. Last time i traind lh, I went mid on SF with no items and skills and got 125 creeps in 10 minutes (the pack of creeps, that comes at 10.00 is not counted).

BlackXargon

Why shouldn't i tank a creep wave if that's what i would normally do in a cm game?

Let me be more specific, you can tank the creep wave but not for the purpose of letting them avoid tower hits. You tank them and hit them under your tower. Reason is when your supports pull the neuts for you.. one way or another you'll have to learn how to last hit under the tower.

Then comes the importance of maintaining creep equilibrium

120 being completely alone isn't that difficult with enough practice.. I also don't play the carry role, of course this was with necromastery. But I mean why must everyone be so intense on here? You guys question me but not the morph hat went 77-62

@Psych1c Bullshit. There are only 80 creeps co,ing through 1 lane in 10 minutes. So u are lier

He is talking about denies as well. Either way its bullshit, without items/necromastery on SF getting 70CS is hard enough, getting 50 denies as well is bullshit.

I'll give it a shot later today.

72/59 AM

you need to practice fountain farm

If you consider 2-3 denies per wave while starting on SF for 5 mins then above that in up to 10 then you should be able to hit about

80-48 or more denies depending on how well you do in the start.

There are 80 potential lasthits you can get in a single lane without jungle stacking. Keep in mind that last hitting with no pressure is infinitely easier than playing in a actual game with fear of ganks, lane harass, and leaving your farming to tap kills yourself.

In my opinion if you are hitting for about 50-60 last hits with about 20-30 denies in about 10 minutes in a live game then that is decent going. If you have a free lane then you should be capitilizing or adding to the lane farm buy pushing out a wave then juggling in two or more camps with either you or your lane support stacking.

fuck stats win games

Jerry

I have the demo. I made 61lh and 64denies, because I wanted do do max cs, not gold.

Rainbow

Not difficult? rly? Pick sf with no items and skills and try it. Not every pro is able to make even 100 creeps. The thing is that you have an opponent in a normal game. But anyways, lasthitting with 38-50 dmg is a good training.

sf mid no items is more impressive

the no items/skills last hitting makes no sense entirely. you want to get the lethal blow on a creep when it has the highest possible hp, not 25, like anyone you play against on mid is gonna let that creep for you 'till it reaches 10 hp so you both can fight for the last hit.

if you're on a free farm lane, the denies stats don't matter at all since all you have to do is controlling the lane by back-denying your creeps.

I wasn't talking to you psychic, I was replying to the people that were commenting about my earlier post.

i dont know why im reading this in 3am

Van-art makes an excellent point. Practicing lasthitting in an artificiallly easy situation leads to bad habits and an unrealistic concept of what you can do.

There are at least 6 major tihngs wrong with doing it this way....maybe more.

[1] You face no opposition competing for the lasthit so the correct timing window is absurdly large.

[2] You face no risk from harassment or ganks so your mind and your movements are improperly practicing habits that will get you killed in a real game...again making it possible to lasthit more than you really can get away with doing.

[3] You face no disruption of the pattern so you cannot correctly practice restoring equalibrium, countering the impact of the enemy heroes attempts to change it.

[4] You face no large changes in the damage dealt. The real pattern of when to correctly attack is much different because your damage and enemy damage increases shift the window.

[5] You face no large changes in attack speed so you cannot learn to adjust your timing correctly.

[6] You face no reason to change the creep equilibrium due to the game situation. In a real game you should hold, push, flash farm or pull the wave back depending on what is happening and this often changes from one wave to the next.

The only thing you practice when you play with no skills and no items against no one is the pure mechanics of lasthtting the first wave or two if you are on an abandoned defensive tri-lane That is just not worth doing. Instead you should practice against players trying to stop you in a real game or at least against "unfair" bots.

If its mouse clicking you are trying to improve...doing 1,150,000 clicks is not going to make you any better than 1,100,000 clicks. If you want to really change your ability to lasthit in a game you need to look at changing something substantial about how you play, something in decision making, objectives, or style...you cannot get significantly better at mouse clicking. Some people are very talented at it...most are not.

You will see a large improvement in your lasthitting on a particular hero if you have played 10+ games of that hero in the past week. But then once you are again familiar with the timing of that hero you won't get better. Because of this, at any given time players are out of practice lasthitting with nearly all the heroes.

I average 68-72/50ish and I suck
so if you do less than this you suck a lot

50 or above is generally what I aim for, any less and feel ashamed

@Relentless
So if i'm playing against unfair bots in mid lane with proper starting items, what would be considered a decent amount of farm at 10mins?

Right now i can only get like 60cs in 10mins with Anti Mage no starting items with no bots ):

I can get 90 creeps easy in a freelane setup. So basically farming jungle as well as forest. Im gonna see how high i can go, gonna stream it after this game if anyone bothers to watch it