I don't think most 4k players are intelligent enough to understand a PL without at least 3 items (Diffusal/Manta/Heart or Butterfly) can't come anywhere close to a teamfight unless his team is already ahead by miles.
But of course they pick the stupid fights and then end up losing towers. I guess I'm just making excuses for losing, but I want to know what to do in these instances.
I didn't bother communicating at all - maybe I should have said something along the lines of "go for pick offs, let me farm till I get 4 slotted then we win" etc.
Fucking annoying as shit.
Why do you think streamers never play shit like PL?
They don't because they don't expect everybody to magically play around their hero.
I guess you being a 4k players means you're no better than them. But to answer your question, getting a midas on pl is not preferable since you can play him like a naga and get radiance. Then again everything depends on what happens in the game, the line ups. I would need to see the game to be able to tell you.
yeah i picked Midas but only as invoker
sometimes as nature prophet if i can really get it very early (very rare).
Other than that i don't bother.
But if you suits you mate, why not?
basically if you cant rely on your teammates, you should be playing carries that arent that hard, such as SF, Morph, Clinkz, etc
SF is really great in pubs because he can flash farm and usually you don't get contested. he can melt towers pretty fast, the downsides is that he is both squishy and do not have an escape mechanism
eh, i like radiance more than the average person imo
but i changed my mind on getting it on PL after weighing out the pros/cons
if you do build less expensive items that also give stats, it will make your clones more durable at a faster rate
and the most compelling point i've come across = radiance kills off the creeps before it gives your illusions a chance to proc
midas might seem nice but in competitve games
when an invoker goes midas, he has a lower win rate than an invoker that doesn't
Only go midas if your team can fight out without for the next 10 mins/ your items doesnt impact your dps output too much.
Just build soul ring and max your first two skills and you'll be good enough to fend for yourself for the most part until you build your cores.
There are heroes that you can't teamfight against, sure, but there are worse hard carries at that point in the game than a hero with a good damage ranged nuke that slows. You don't have to get up in their grill to deal damage.
as a PL I usually tend to get soul ring for that early harass and potential kills too, usually works out pretty well. PL has that advantage that his invisible skill is using less mana the higher the lvl it is, so it's good to have it leveled high early for escaping easily
Midas is a horrible item when not on heroes that benefit greatly from the attack speed (i.e. void, tiny)
Midas on every hero cz it's the best item in the whole game. It gives you 190 gold out of thin air.
I am 5k but don't play carry that often. When I do, however, Clinkz is among my first choices and IMO, midas, as long as you have it early enough is a decent pickup. Clinkz is a slow farmer and must rely on kills. Midas not only helps with his farm but also helps clinkz snowball more due to exp, gives useful AS and allows you to clear camps you used dark pact on much faster.
RETARDS U BUILD MIDAS PHASE BOOTS MASK OF MADNESS DAEDULUS ON PL AND SKIP UR ILLUSION SKILLS JUST GO STATS THEN U RAPE THE EARLY GAME.
This is the best PL player I've come across. Great build.
Idk but I'm bad enough to get matched against him so that says a lot about me right?
http://dotabuff.com/players/133212901/items midas \o/
Well it depends on the situation. First off I wouldnt consider PL a counter to Morph and SF. In general an SF makes other Carrys go online a little faster due to the aura and the possibility to take rosh in a mim.
When you are aware that you have to deal with a BB in lane you should reconsider your choice. It is important to adapt your carry to the offlane. Meaning that if there is an offlaner which forces you out of the lane something went fundamentally wrong.
It is totally individual for each game whether midas is a good choice or not, but you should keep in mind that your goal is not to totally outfarm them but rather keep up with them and survive as long as possible so their farm barely plays a role.
A good example would be Titans Meracle. He played naga siren and farmed really greatly however what he did more is creating space for his whole team to catch up in farm. As soon as the opposing teams managed to force the issue Titans other carrys were almost on par with the opposing carrys while Naga peaked a little.
TL:DR
Creating speace for team > Your farm
I think midas is actually becoming a popular pick on clinkz. That's just what I heard from my high rated friends. I guess he just wants tons of levels fast, he does need orchid to keep peeps from running but he does craploads of dmg just with strafe and fire arrows.
Midas is also becoming super popular on void while I feel like battlefury is declining.
I generally only midas on doom. I never play invoked, enchantress or np. I would probably midas on them too.
PL doesn't "counter" SF but he does very well against Morphling. Magic resist + illusions while Morph has no choice of getting rid of them quickly.
I've been considering Naga Siren as an option besides middle but I find she's actually a bit worse than PL in almost every regard - shit base damage meaning more likely to miss last hits, option of going ensnare + rip tide for some kills but then missing out on images and thus losing farming capacity (whereas going image + rip tide means you can farm faster but have no hero killing potential unless someone ganks for you which happens once in a blue moon in 4k MMR games).
Aside from PL I don't know which hero could possibly outcarry a farmed SF and Morphling...maybe a Medusa but that's even more of a retard ricing hero. Antimage is in the same boat as PL - farm farm farm.
HoM is required in games with both teams doing defensive trilanes with the aim of securing farm for the hard carries. While you get good gold because the supports are zoning out the offlaner, a HoM is required to make-up for the experience splitting 3-ways. Most of the hard carries benefit strongly from a fast level 16, like Morph, Void, Lycan.
Of course, this only holds if the early game is stale, with little action. If the opponents are obviously going for a 5-man death push lineup, then buying HoM against a zoo of forge spirits, Chen creeps, treants, necrobooks and SS wards is suicide.
No HoM in dual lanes vs dual lanes, aggro trilanes, or on supports who need to buy wards.
@yikes
Everything outcarries SF. He's by no means a good hardcarry. His strong point is good early-midgame with great ability to snowball.
Medusa is awesome.
PL, probably is the most dangerous carry in the game, when there's no direct counterpick against him. When there's such counterpick, he's so-so.
cis.black^ went treads, vlads, yasha, radiance, manta, then build according to the game (diffusal for aggression, butterfly against heavy right click, heart against spell based lineups, etc.)
I'm testing it out, success so far in 2 games. PL's main problem is lack of sustain early on. You can't go tranquils anymore (well you can but you're going to get raped later on), vanguard is a pretty subpar item.
Basically all his early game problems are similar to spectre's:
1) laning isn't very strong compared to heroes like clinkz, mirana, jugg
2) can't solo kill any hero unlike faceless void and morphling
3) no sustain skill/item whatsoever unlike wraith king/dragon knight/phantom assassin
4) no flash farming capability unlike luna, antimage, and siren, until he maxes out juxtapose (and very rarely will you see that - people typically max out spirit lance and doppelwalk since level 1 doppelwalk = 150 mana to escape is ridiculous)
5) mana pool is pretty abysmal for a hero who relies primarily on his spells to deal damage early and mid game (most players aren't going to let you walk up to them with ur main hero and right click them - you have to spam lance to get kills/assist)
However I'd still pick PL anyday over Spectre/Medusa if I need a super hard carry since those heroes are more heavily reliant on team whereas PL can solo carry games, though less often than heroes like Storm/Ember/etc.
^Allow me to correct you here. Medusa has decent laning stage (if you know how to use Mystic Snake) and does not require many items to be effective. Also, she has quite good team contribution due to her ulti. Ideally, on Medusa you need boots + linkens + skadi to be quite tanky enough to go into fights. After that, going butterfly/rapier you can end the game and 1 vs 5.
friend (who is a hard carry player) used to play pl without windwalk. because if pl is getting ganked your ww gets countered by 180 gold. instead he would get stats for those 4 levels you would spend in ww.
"Medusa has decent laning stage (if you know how to use Mystic Snake) and does not require many items to be effective"
rofl
? you don't get it just for the escape, being able to generate an image for 60 mana with pretty low cd is good
epik is right, eveyone out carries SF late, he has nothing that scales late game, just some -armor. He is just way strong early and you snowball into late before other carries can catch up.
Medusa isn't the most amazing laner but she is underrated. People assume she's a sitting duck and shit in lane and that's just no true. Her nuke does a ton of dmg early on if you bounce it correctly, if your lane doesn't have disables you will not kill her. And her ult at 6 is extremely useful.
@yikes
Picking PL when there's Sven/Magnus/Medusa or even ES on enemy team is a really bad idea. When there's none of these, he's OP. And I think PA with Battlefury will outcarry PL.
Well, against Medusa and PA you can go full-rat mod, but still, you'll be in a disadvantage.
I won against weak duo-safelanes with offlane Medusa several times (well, that's not about me being good, but about them being terrible, but still...)
She's much better on a lane, than most think she is. She just needs about 3 levels to warm up.
tested cis.black's build out for 3 games so far, it's pretty good and probably the best one for this version no matter how grim the game looks.
the ultimate choice for your first early game item aside from treads is between drums (stats/ms) vs vlads (sustain) and sustain wins cuz you're going to be afk in jungle for a really long time as any half competent team will actively seek to gank you if you're farming in lane (one dust = dead)
if you're smart and send an illusion to jungle entrances you should be fine (ask your supports to buy obs just in case and sentry the entrances if they have something annoying like gondar/clinkz)
i might get flamed for suggesting this but i strongly advocate getting 2 or 3 points in lance early game and not 4; you're not going to be actively seeking out hero kills, maxing out 2 and 3 is more important for farming purposes (same reason no carry naga maxes out ensnare, gets 1 level at most till later levels)
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Do you go midas on hard carries in this patch
I just had a pretty ridiculous game - I last picked PL to "counter" Morph and outcarry Morph + SF from the other team. Typical 4k trash "supports" allow them to rush midas without any consequences while I have to compete against a Bristleback in lane (in other words, the worst of both worlds - I DON'T get free farm and other team has 2 carries rushing midas). I opted to skip Midas which I think was a mistake and in the end I had more creep kills but they still outfarmed me.
I watched about 30 min of PPD's stream and he went Midas on Clinkz (a hero you would think should just rush orchid and go around killing people) but I think there's some logic behind the "my team is shit so I'd better farm up quickly."
EE/Arteezy also play super selfishly and usually they won't care about their team dying randomly at some place on the map. I literally wasted a shit ton of time in that PL game I just mentioned sitting around the tower cuz I knew they were going to teamfight, when in reality I should just have farmed. (Sigh)