Hmm.....
I think Carry Abaddon can work sometimes, however the big problems is he has 2 abilities that are rather useless if you're playing the 1 pos, cause if you'll planning to actively use those your uptime to attack heroes becomes low.
AKA, obviously not a very good hero to play as a 1 as he has abilities that needs to be actively used on team-mates.
Also I don't think your "carrybuild" was very good.
Carry Abba is legit as fuck. Really good hero, especially if you get some early advantage (which isn't that hard to do). Really hard to deal with if played properly.
in low tier pubs it may work because he has good chasing capability due to his E, also due to his shield which he can cast upon himself and dive like a bitch
but in higher level games its usually not worthy it because he gets outcarried and controlled pretty easily, but it may work sometimes
I think he could be interesting as an aggressive trilane farmer as long as the two supports have good lockdown, but he really needs levels in order to be agressive so I'm not sure if a trilane is right for him. His passive is extremely strong against certain lineups and even if they have force staffs it's hard to kite him because if you go S&Y he'll be nearly hasted with his passive.
He could do alright mid against some heroes too.
actually, i dont really consider his shield "useless" even if you're playing as a carry role
why would a relatively low-mana costing spell that is considered a "super-debuff" be useless just because you switched into a carry position? i can see why death coil would lose it's effectiveness due to the replacement of tranqs with phase (less HP regen), and also less likely to spam it while you're right-clicking your enemies to death majority of the time.
good or not, i think it was somewhat viable this game. i started with some sents for bot lane but no one was mid so i welcomed myself to it vs SF. im sorry that my obvious advantage vs SF and my horrid carry build does not appease to your taste.
just out of curiosity and some diligence, which part of my build was not "very good"?
You didn't understand what I meant by uptime did you?
When you have to be actively casting abilities on your allies to keep THEM alive when you're playing the CARRY role your ACTIVELY using your time using ABILITIES to keep your ALLIES alive as a CARRY instead of HITTING the enemies to win the FIGHT by dealing DAMAGE.
These are some keywords.
I assume Abba carry works well in the very low skill games.
EDIT:
You might just aswell build mek and pipe instead of MKB and those other shits you bought considering you'd rather heal your allies instead of hitting creeps
kk well since most people are going to assume that i'm horrid and that any build that deviates from "recommended suggestions" "only works in low tier games".
im horrid. ok. i went mid with the usual support items, a bit on the greedy side.
SF was at 4700+ which is roughly 400 MMR above me (huge difference? no, but still. either A. he's bad, B. had a bad game C. this build and hero is viable/capable of a carry-oriented role in the mid lane D. we'll just chalk it up to luck i suppose)
--> insert why MMR doesn't matter
--> insert why MMR does matter
--> change the story whenever you feel like flaming someone
anyhow, i think he's great as a carry vs any heroes that revolve around doing a lot of right-click dmg with relatively no escape mech
i.e. SF, drow, sniper
i would've preferred to go basher, but they had a riki/kotl so i opted for an mkb.
im pretty sure bottle would work well for abba mid lane, he can make last hitting a pain in the ass with his shield, and has decent LH abilities himself
and yeah, i like sny+mom+phase on him, it seems like racecar builds are the way to go (maybe)
plus, MoM's downside (dmg amp) can work really nicely on him with his ulti (i.e. macropyre, you can just dive in that shit cause it lasts forever .__.)
i said i agree with death coil being a lot less useful
i said i disagree with aphotic shield being a lot less useful
now, as for your CD for shield, i'm pretty sure you could HIT enemies in that spare time
yes yes, everyone assumes that there's only one way to play. what a surprise.
considering that they had two spammable spells that granted some sort of evasion, i think MKB was a decent choice.
considering that they had two people capable of draining a large percentage of my mana, i think opting for a carry-oriented role was better, since we also didn't have anyone in the mid lane.
considering that their main source of dmg was physical, and that blocking magic dmg with pipe for myself would be counter-productive with my ult, i really dont think pipe would've had much use here
my main objective was to take out their dmg dealers by doing as much dmg as possible before casting my ult, and casting my ult or being in a position where it's actually healing me.
also, i consider heroes, heroes. not creeps. im fairly certain it takes farm to get farmed.
but whatever, twist the facts to suit what you believe.
yeah it is, i was deciding between that and mjolnir
but WK already got one and for some reason venge had a platemail for awhile so i thought she might be getting one too
she ended up buying a mystic staff so... obviously shivas
but still, went skadi as a replacement since we didn't need two of em
i mean... refresher radi aghs lol
maybe with a spectre
im curious to see how his aghs ult will work with spectre's dispersion
No refresher or aghs, but IMO Radiance is good on carry Abbadon as a first or second big item if you're snowballing. IIRC last time I played him I went Phase > S&Y > AC > Radiance > Basher. We were really far ahead though so it probably didn't matter what I built.
EDIT: Found the game. Apparently I went Vanguard after Phase. I'd probably skip that if I played him as a carry again. It depends on how it stacks with Aphotic Shield. If the Vanguard reduces the damage before it hits his shield it could be alright.
Either way I dived towers and killed heroes. Fun game.
No, seriously...
Refresher is legit on Wraith King, so why not on Abbadon? If you want to be REALLY annoying, refresher+ags+radiance is way to go.
Everything abadon has is static, nothing really scales except for his passive which gives you static IAS which kinda scales up as you get more damage. Thus you need to snowball and have a huge gold advantage to carry with him. Which is possible because he's super strong early, but it's not really the best. It's viable, not ideal. It's like going carry axe, works if you get a lot of early dunks.
@Soultrap: Because Refresher isn't really that legit on WK. Sure you'll have 3 lives, but you'll also spend 5k gold on an item that gives you very little damage. Plus, Abbadon's ult isn't nearly as good as WK's as long as the enemy knows to stop focusing you. It's only a 40 second cd at 16 anyways...
@Dacheat
You advise to build S&Y (32 damage, 32 attack speed) which is similar to Refresher (+40 damage, +10 attack speed). Ofc, S&Y gives you more speed, but Refresher gives you regen to cast your spells.
Abbadon will heal self if he has Aghanim, no matter if you focusing him or his teammates.
Semi-carry Abba best if he gets a good start.
But say your start doesn't go so welll... then you'll be a meh factor whole game.
S&Y basically gives you haste with your passive making you very hard to kite even against organized teams. It also gives you more HP and armor as well as the passive maim, which is the most underrated part of the item IMO. It goes through BKB guys.
Sure you can get Aghs too, but then you've spent 9k+ and still have very little damage. Get Aghs if you want, but refresher is overkill. It's a 40 second cd...
^
but just imagine
tanking 35% dmg for ur team for over 10 sec while that radi is ticking off their hp
maybe im just fantasizing ):
Aghs by itself I think is a good item if you're teamfighting a lot (which you should be doing if you're carry Abbadon), but Refresher is just overkill/"4 teh lulz".
S&Y is also over 1k gold cheaper than Refresher and will be useful even if you haven't finished it completely whereas most of Refresher's usefulness comes from the active.
I've only had one close game where I ended up legitimately carrying with abaddon in a decently skilled bracket - http://dotabuff.com/matches/643133482
I wouldn't recommend it either. Your armor gain is completely abysmal and you are very easily kited, relying on movespeed and bashes completely to deal any damage. When the game goes late you will die to any enemy carry in less than two seconds once you lose your ult, and it's easy to get stunlocked or eulsed during your ult.
The only way I ever carried that game was getting an absurd advantage early and then ending the game with rapier + aegis. You just die too fast and do too little to reliably carry.
Also you lose the ability to remove stuns from your primary carry, because you can't use shield while stunned.
His armor's fine as long as you get an AC. He's not a hard carry. More of a midgame carry where you try to end the game by 25-30 minutes.
Your armor is barely acceptable with armlet + ac, and you die to any carry with equivalent net worth easily while putting out damage that is OK at best and easily countered by atos/ghost/force/euls.
Midgame you will be frankly unimpressive, dealing the same or less damage than any other carry and being easily kited. All AC does is bump your survivability up from abysmal to mediocre, you're still average at best as far as midgame utility goes
There is basically no reason to pick abaddon as a carry unless the opposition has minimal lockdown and 1 core that is fucked up by your skillset (ursa comes to mind, slow thru bkb and he can't kill you +shield removes clap)
You basically invest all this money in abaddon, and what you come out with is a shittier lifestealer with an ult that keeps you alive for 5 extra seconds.
I like playing abaddon as a farming hero, it just isn't good. My damage never felt significant in that game until i had mom + armlet + abyssal, and I couldn't decisively win fights until I had daedalus + rapier.
I've seen him work in low tier with S&Y. I've also gone full support myself and gotten refresher, vlads, mek.
here's how i see it
with phase boots, in the early game, he deals above average dmg, with above average animations
he tapers off in the mid game "physical dmg" that is
if and when i go a carry-oriented role on abba, my mid game would usually include phase/mom/yasha, which bumps him up to about average in terms of physical dps
and after any heavy dmg item is obtained, he starts hitting like a power house. he has the advantages in ms, and makin it harder for u to kite, this didnt really mean much in the mid game, but now with MoM + dmg items (basher, mkb, etc), the enemy team can't really afford to let you do your own thing
and to clarify, i did say this role best suits abbadon when faced against teams that rely heavily on right-click dmg with relatively no escape mechs
he's a counter in that sort. you can't kite, you can't hit him, you just kinda have to... run.
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viable in this match?
i ended up mid vs SF .___. cause our NP wanted to cliff jungle
BUT WE WON HOLY SHIT WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO