General DiscussionTerrorblade - jungle tips

you need cocaine while jungling with TB to beat matrice

Not sure about this but isnt jungling depends on the which creep that spawn?
If you are unlucky you will jungle slower

whats so special about his tb ?

its not quelling blade + 2 circlet. You start with circlet and three agi boots. The quelling blade is the first item you purchase. At least that is what I saw him do, and what i do now

@Vaikiss - "special" can be loaded so I wont say, but it is somewhat unique in that it is a build that intentionally purchases no regen and depending on the neutrals uses an intentional death after purchasing to regain health mana.

You go 2x wb and aquilla thats why its slow. If you go 3xwb without aquila you ll get faster yasha

^
i'm 50/50 on the aquila, but It really shouldn't slow down TB that much at all. That said the aquila should be purchased after acquiring 3 wraith bands (or at least 2 + agi boots).

matrice goes 2 wb into aquila now
he skips sunder for stats anyways ( doesnt get it at 6)
and u definitely dont get reflection so early

Concede - Matrice changed his build. Now it's 2 circlet + QB & he goes for aquilla + WB.

Funny that he skips sunder as jungling tb. you would think sunder would be the perfect "dont gank me alone or ill rape you" ability.

It's not yet changedto 2 circlet qb, it's currently in test.

With some calculation the 2 circlet qb should be slightly superior in terms of dps, compare to 3 slipper circlet.

But for some reasons that i didn't found out yet, (mb related to the slightly less tanking ability of illusion) it's not working as well as my usual build

matrice can u explain the situations where you skip sunder for stats, and at what level/item aquired timing is it best to start putting skills into it?

since u play tb to kill creeps and towers

u dont need it at all..

Even when i fight, most of time i cann't use that spell, so i skip it (especially against sky, with his cheated silence, whuch really should last 1 or 2 less second to be a balanced spell)

for example, last 4 game are, doom, doom, sky, sky.
where the fuck you want to place a sunder before being tanky enough ?

yea i get that but in your games you dont delay it until level 18, the latest possible level. so i was wondering that apart from it being matchup dependent, do you add sunder when you get a specific item? and if sunder is useful, isnt it better to put more levels into it for reduce mana cost?

anyways isnt the ability to just sunder allies worth more than stats itself? especially on tranquil boots supports.

just trying to understand stuff that i have no clue about, no disrespect

Matrice - I have some questions to u regarding jungling. I would like to hear Zenoth's opinion also if possible :)

1. What's your average time to get QB, brown boots, wraith band, aquilla & yasha ? Average time if u only stay in woods & don't rotate to kill tower/enemy ?
2. Do u have a specific timing when to roam or go for tower ?
3. If u're radiant & in easy camp spawn centaurs what's ur next camp to do ? I can't kill centaurs fast enough in most cases, so I need to go for other camp. Do u go for far easy camp or go for hard camps instead ?
4. What do u think about radiant's TB ? Is it good enough or is it only viable to jungle at dire ?
5. Do u think it's a good idea to kill ursa, hellbears before high lvl & probably metamorphosis on ? I always get clapped & lose half hp (or even more) doing this camp…
6. Do u know exact farm required to kill hard camp with 1 illusion & when I can go to farm ancients ? When do u go to farm ancients & is stacking them viable ?
7. When do u farm lanes with illusions & woods with hero & vice versa (lane with hero, woods with illusion) ? I find farming with main hero only woods + illusion in lane takes me too much hp & after aroud 2 rounds of rotating in jungle with hero only I need to go back to base.
8. Is it better to send or illusions in one lane (manta+2 illusions) or spread them across map ? Normally I send them all in 1 lane to push faster, but it's probably not farm efficent. What's ur opinion ?
9. Do u use groups on fly ? I know u can perma bind all your illusions, but u can also bind only one the moment it spawns, so do u have this temporary bind or simple binds like - 1 (hero), 2 (hero+illusions), 3 (all illusions) ?
10. What do u think about Satanic, Daedalus, Heart on TB ? Sometimes enemies get 2 mkbs & I find it's a bad idea to go for 3xbutterfly. Normally I go bots-manta-skadi-3xfly.

EDIT - why no points in Q vs Morphling ?

1) qb is at firstback, unless i faced ogre, followed by full ursa/centaure camp, which in this case i suicide lvl1
My only "time" timing is 12 min no yasha, gonna be a hard game (usually it's rather at min 10 i get it)
2) unless my allys decided to feed heavily, i'm making my first move that 3rd meta
3) centaure is not a problem, you kill the big one, and then stack the spot, the only problem is ogre, followed by full ursa/centaure camp (and it's almost impossible to stack ogre in radiant), for centaure camp, you kill only the big one, then stack it.
4) radiant wood is much worst that dire's one, medium camp almost unstackable, losing a lot of time in running between camp early
5) yeah it's worth it, but only if you bought at least once item (after first meta), don't send all 3 tb in same time, make illu tank, and when it dies, you send the waiting illusion to tank at it's place, so there's no clap.
6-7) nope i don't, but usually i make a hard spot with an illu, and then send that illu to lane.
Ancient is pretty far from fast farm route, so i don't do them often.
8) 1 per lane, unless you intend to take the tower.
9) 1 is all, 2 is illu only, 3 is chick, 4 is chick, and i use f1 for hero alone
10) I almost always do daedalus, i'd rather take tarasque than sata

EDIT) i cann't kill him, even with reflection, and he is too weak to kill me, so no need for it before late game.

what do you do if u get 3x centaurs

All centaure is not a problem, you kill one spot (that's easy if it's the first spot), then kill a little cent, then you are lvl2, and can start the wood with meta

when do you prefer using your first metamorph?

^Probably as soon as you get it.

I-ll try to jungle TB using this build on next game.

He probably stacks better than you. I downloaded his game replay and he is always aware of the respawn timer and will stack just as his camp dies. I often finish off a camp at like the 02 mark and go DOH why didn't I remember to stack?!

12 min yasha though is not bad and you can still win games. You farm up so fast mid game I wouldn't worry too much about your start. The main thing that separates tb wins for me is simply how much did lanes feed and how many towers have we lost by min ~15 not necessarily my own farm.

I failed to jungle with TB, nvm better keep jungling as np and ursa.

You have to try a feel times to get it.

Did you do a bot match first? Do a couple easy bot matches to 10 mins and see where you're at. If you can get yasha during a bot match by 10 you probably have the jungle mechanics down. You can usually squeeze out 10 mins just jungling before you have to go push a lane.

I tried this on dota 1, Wb,Aquilla,Treads,Yasha in 11mins no tower. Is that acceptable?

And also, I think getting Illusion first if the spawn is not Ursa/Satyr is better than Metamorph on lvl 1 it's faster and if you suicide you can use metamorph at lvl 2

if i saw jungle tb in in my game i'd be afk since minute 1

^ ez - 25 mmr.

Don't knock it til you try it.

@sinclaire that sounds fine but if we're following matrice he skips treads, goes right for boots of travel later and also grabs a quell blade early. And the build is illusion first, then meta at lvl 2. There's another video out there of a guy doing meta at 1 but the illusion build seems to go slightly faster.

dont knock it? haha ur not even close to 4k mmr and you think i'd want a useless jungler hogging courier when every match there is a 5 man gank train involved after 6-7 minutes

congratz on having almost no deaths when a match is over i guess

^ matrice has more mmr than u, most likely, and he makes this shit work. if u have a furion going woods or any other hero for that matter u afk?

matrice got 400-500 more points than me and the difference is i calibrated at 5.1k or something while he calibrated at 6.2k and picked tb during 6.79

you wanna keep the argument going?

^ yes please. and 1 more thing you didn't answer my question.

so continue the argument then you dumb fucking troll

lol, you think i troll, but u rly didn't answer my question (and i am not dumb)

edit: i couldn't really understand your last sentence, could you perhaps paraphrase it?

my tb winrate didn't decline at all after 6.79, but thx for your comment 13/f/japan
Oh, and i was almost 6k4 when tb went out.

i'm aware your winrate didn't decline after 6.79

my point is if i saw a jungle tb, i'd go afk because that person is mostly a shitter and trying to pull off something he won't be able to do, i dont think i ever criticized your tb jungling

It's too easy to fail http://dotabuff.com/matches/817310814 anyone who does fail it in 4.8K and above doesn't really deserve their rating.

so if mattrice does it in ur game are u gonna afk wave same :3

It works at all mmr levels, like I said, try it and maybe you will have a different opinion.

Or don't. I don't give a flying fuck what you do in game. But this has been one of the better, more informative threads so don't come in here trying to hog attention and shit all over it just to brag about your mmr. It's pathetic.

Haters gonna hate