a nice little way to avoid blame in pubs is by playing support, doing nothing of what you said, try to last hit in carry's lane, then 1 of 2 things will happen.
either a, your mid/offlane will manage to make up for lack of carry (%10 of the time) then nobody blames you since you won
or b, your team gets rolled(%90 of the time) but you get to blame your carry since he has no farm.
Just make sure all game you are blaming carry for EVERYTHING, every time you die ping carry, let everyone know his items, ask enemy team to report him etc.
but yes. Supports who pull for no reason are the bane of my existence. They can't think of something better to do and fuck lane equilibrium.
Just fucking stack for later, or at the very least do a pull through to medium camp.
95% supports i meet are total trash; other 5% or so are only passable. Supports suck and FEED so much nowadays i am thinking of supporting myself *again*.... for some reason they usually zone offlaner/pull badly and sometimes even take cs+autoatack then abbandon lane to leave me higher lvl EARLY GAME KILLER alone with no wards... and then 80% of the time 2-3 people gang dive gank me...
do mothing, think they are good; bitch about others. Those are pub supports...
@Deljade it would be extremely narcissistic if I was a support main and praising myself. And I don't like supporting, I already said its a shit job.
Every mid/carry player dreams of a pro support being his waifu forever
Lols, this is coming from an enigma with no mek amd instead rushes midas. Nice one bro!
Support isn't shit job though. What I find shit job is having to deal with 2-3 enemies that struggle to deny my farm like there's no tomorrow and a clueless lane support.
"And I don't like supporting, I already said its a shit job." - pengu
Besides, who says Enigma has to be a support?
That hero is so much stronger as a farming #3 and there are plenty of people who play him as such. It is extremely narrow minded to decide that a hero has a fixed playstyle. You sound like someone who would complain how retarded/noob utility SF is or attackspeed 1-1-4 Juggernaut one year go before these playstyles were popularized.
I love to play 5th position support, as it naturally is my favorite role, and it's the easier way to win. But eh, i have to play core positions to get better at the game as well. If the carry is doing bullshit, just tell him to focus, to calm down, that you've got this. People play badly not because they're retarded, but because they're frustrated. Blaming others will just cause frustration in the team. Don't search for a game if you're only focusing about winning. Winning games doesn't make people better. Losing does. Focus on the game, not on the overcome of it.
Anyone that buy both courier and wards is considered a half decent support in my games. You can't imagine how many of them buy NOTHING at my MMR...
By picking midas over mek you waste his early tower pushing potential :P : You sound like a retarded carry Flaming :)) No wonder you get support retards. The usual know it all. Gj.
*Didn't say enigma was a support. Just looked at your item build When I saw your recent games.
"Didn't say enigma was a support. Just looked at your item build When I saw your recent games."
So you brought this up on a thread about supports, why?
The usual know it all, eh? Glad that you know exactly what you are. I'm not really going to continue this worthless flaming. This thread was made to thank good support players and tell whiners how much they sucked. If you want to think I'm a dumbass, then go ahead. Thread was never about me.
Btw TripleSteal-, the way you play the hero determines the role. Thats why you can be a support Lina or carry Lina or midlane Lina. Mek might be solid item on Enigma but I wanted to go for a more farm oriented playstyle.
u can play anything as any role, but when we define that hero A is position #X, we assume that we are talking about average situation. On average, enigma is supp with decent farm.
Also, if you look through the picks in competitve, you gonna realise that enigma is played more or less always by supp players.
Thats what I meant by calling enigma supp.
I suck at dota, my mmr is just over 1k. I buy everything at the start as support purely to help the other (4) support get a head start on his arcanes etc. My problem is I'm not time efficient when warding, stacking etc and I forget to farm enough myself. I love playing position 5 though.
I actually disagree with OP.
If you support and win it's because you created space, made plays, etc. If you lost, it's because your carry couldn't carry.
helps me sleep better at night.
@pengu
DOTA is too complicated game. You can't say: "I win because of X and lose because of Y." You can zone-out offlaner, stack every jungle camp, cover whole map with wards, you can even gank every lane and get 20-0 score, but you will lose anyway if enemies have better late game and they don't give up.
Serious question, don't hate cuz I suck and am a noob.
If I am playing in a low level pub as a support hero, bought and placed wards, and am running around the jungle stacking and staying out of xp range for the carry so he can soak it all up A) when is it acceptable for you to farm B) how do you farm if you are seriously under leveled and are scared of getting ganked in lane and C) what IS an acceptable level to be at as a support at say 10 min?
I have tried a couple of times to play to the best of my ability as a hard support by stacking, warding and staying out of xp range and generally not feeding but I find that I can never contribute to team fights or otherwise because a serious lack of farm.
@TripleSteal-, yes I get your point and what I'm saying is that I wasn't playing him as support those games hence I opted for non-support items like midas.
@Soultrap, ?? I'm just saying that people who get angry at their team as supports should realize that they themselves could be the very reason the team performs poorly. People need to stop thinking that its pointless supporting others cuz they suck when they never even supported in the first place.
Like pulling. You rape the creep equilibrium and leave your carry alone. Sometimes he dies to the higher level offlane, sometimes he gets 0 cs out of that wave because of the pull. But a lot of people think 'oh pulling is my job' when supporting is much more complex than that.
@lemonloaf, there is no 'set' thing to do as a support. Your job is to make the game as easy for your team as possible and you do whats necessary for that. You don't necessarily have to go out of your way to stack, you can do so if you're near a camp near the x:52 mark or unless your carry is a stack farmer (gyro, sven). You don't really need to let your carry soak all the exp, its alright to drain the exp as long as your carry is allowed to comfortably last hit BUT if theres no enemy offlane in the lane you're better off pulling or going to gank instead of doing nothing but draining exp. If you're seriously under levelled you do not go off to solo farm unless the enemy has 0 pickoff heroes and you find it reasonably safe such as near the tier 2 or tier 3, maybe jungle. There is no 'acceptable' level for supports at 10 min, depending on how the game went you could've been forced to roam a lot and countergank so you could be underlevel. But if you did your job then it doesn't matter.
The game would be a lot easier if you just think objectively. What does your team need to do to win? Outfarm the enemy or end early? Does mid look like they need help? Are you a level/item dependent support and would it be more beneficial to get that blink or levels instead of roaming around? In low level games, people are more prone to die to ganks and people don't punish late game supports like Omni or greedy ones like Enigma. Watch siractionslacks video on how he views supporting when everyone around you is a retard; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-J9mfcExhg
This is great pengu thanks. It makes a lot of sense. I will watch that video too, I am sure there is some good information in there.
+1 for that video
@lemonloaf
I share your pain. I try to set myself a goal of having a key item by a certain time, providing that doesn't come at the expense of stealing a carrys farm. If I have secured runes, bought courier and wards, helped zone the enemy and hopefully got an assist on a kill with my carry, maybe stacked two or three camps and controlled the lane to help my carry farm...I don't mind stacking a camp and taking it for myself around 10 minutes unless the carry or someone nearby is very close to a significant level or item.
@pengu
That video you posted is against everything you said before. Stop hating supports who pull just to farm 80g, because they follow video guide: "I don't care how, but you must buy mana boots in 10 minutes" (c)Siractionslacks.
Sir Action Slacks is a terrible support player. His mindsets are what keeps people in the 3k bracket, and people always go "TY based action slacks for the winrate" but that simply comes from playing Omniknight cause who doesn't have a giant winrate on him if you actually play him and know how to support.
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/146582953/heroes Soultrap 80 games, 68.75% winrate
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/90503334/heroes Havoc Badger 52 games 67.31% winrate
Being a good support takes time, it takes a better view of the bigger picture, knowing how far you can extend on your current farm, or how much you can compliment the team with your pick. It goes way beyond just hanging around the safelane, occasionally pulling etc. I have honestly had a lot more farm and success with an active support then sitting in lane waiting for items or for a pull camp.
....Also my two cents is that mana boots are by far the worst boots in the game, I usually go tranquils if I have no farm and treads if I have farm on most of my support. There is no reason to get mana boots it just makes people stupid with their mana e.g. burning 200 mana spells on creepwaves.
siraction is a decent support, he's attitute is correct but he's just not good enough as a player overall.
I wonder if pengu is saying that how to play support is very situational such as any role. And supports can (as anyone else) blame others without realizing that they are making quite big mistakes. I am totally agreeing. I play often support and won many games. I love to do the job but need lots of love in return, cuz i still want glory if i dont get the 20-0-20 score.
I'm just not sure about the last part w the pulling. What does pengu mean by a strong 1vs1 offlane?
I think pulling is a game changing mechanic. First i zone the offlaner out of the lane, then I pull to make the offlaner come forward in order to zone him out again, making him use all tangos/salves. The offlaner doesn't get xp/gold from the wave i pulled and gets nervous. If it goes well, fb for my safelane carry and e. g. <4 min midas. Kills/assists are the best way to gain xp/gold also for me as support.
If my carry cannot last hit under tower, i can only shake my head.
i report whoever pulls wrong and might even feed from min 1 if he doesnt leave my lane right away after i spam GET BACK! GET BACK! over and over and over until i start feeding and spamming WELL PLAYED! WELL PLAYED! continously as well as constant pinging the motherf*ucker.
Slacks just promotes greed on the supports and making sure you get what you need cause the carries will be shit. I watched a couple of his videos and when he's not basically just reciting the usual in's and out's of the average game he's basically just talking straight out of his ass.
If you don't engage yourself as a support early game there is little chance you will make it into the late. I don't care how bad your carry is, there is always room to make something happen. Find the player who looks the most into winning and work with them and just totally ditch your carry if you must.
Slacks makes some good points but nothing that is that new or outstanding to people. I guess sometimes people need to remember though. Knowledge and execution are different things.
I thought Slacks' video was part helpful but part tongue in cheek and not to be taken entirely seriously. It's funny, but I'd say its a bit of a piss take guide rather than serious insight.
if you complain about 'solo supporting', don't even attempt support role please
I love being the only support on team, you get 100% control of warding. I'd much rather have some teammate happily jungling for the 2000th time, than flailing around on a 600hp support hero, single-pulling at random intervals, and warding runes at 55 min
most hated type of player are these martyr whiner 'support players' usually a 0-20 CM, and almost invariably building a naked Aghs (never completed before 40 min)
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Too often I see people go 'support' and whine about how their team is horrible and they should've been carry instead.
Well guess what, you sucked as a support. Pub supports are the reason I refuse to go safelane carry, I only do so when I have my 5k support player friend to lane with me.
You are not 'support' just because you bought courier and wards. You're a support because you zoned that offlaner away, secured your carry farm, counter ganked that mid, objectively warded (not same spot over and over), stacked camps, noted that rosh timer, keeping track of enemy items, making calls with smoke ganks and etc.
Its a shit job with lots to do and very little glory because at the end of the day that 15-2-11 carry think he did everything when you made all the clutch plays with that forcestaff save or the decision to roshan and he literally just farmed and rightclicked, wow so pr0.
But thats what it means to be a support. I fucking respect legit support players.
And I don't know about all those people complaining about how you can't climb ranked with support; its probably the easiest way. If you don't find yourself climbing when you play support, you're fucking doing it wrong.
P.S. I HATE SUPPORTS WHO PULL WHEN THE OFFLANE IS STRONG 1V1 AGAINST THE CARRY, ITS A DUMB MOVE. You secured 80g from that pull but your carry just missed a wave of creeps.