General DiscussionToo much support heroes are bad?

Nowadays running more than 1 below pos 3 is losing.

thing is people suck and its more noticeable when they play support cause thats the hardest role to play!

And past 30 minutes, without teamwork you're screwed.

1 is enough this patch imo

Yes it's bad but it all depends and saying too much supports is very vague.

Really at the core of dota you only need 1 thing- tower dmg. The problem is most supports do not provide hardly any tower dmg, having terrible right clicks and not having tower dmg abilities. But say you're running a support pugna and lesh or shadow shaman. You might be fine having two more and one carry. Or if you have a cm, lich, lion, skywrath all on same team. It's not a big deal if you buy 2-3 necrobooks to compensate.

The other issue is most supports are countered pretty heavily by bkb. Lich, cm, lion, sky, earthshaker all have great ults and other nukes, all blocked by bkb. You might be winning with a 3-4 support lineup for first 30 minutes and score might be something nuts like 25-5 but once two or three carries get bkbs on the other team they'll wreck you. Troll and sniper with bkbs for example. But if you're running supports like witch dr then that doesn't matter, just get aghs, wipe enemy team all day.

Ultimately though yes, supports fall off dramatically in effectiveness after level 16 because of bkbs and because spells don't get more powerful. I mean you might farm an aghs or refersher and get more effective, but your combo that killed an enemy troll at level 16 might not kill him at 25 when he has skadi and twice as much hp. In general the longer the match the more carries are favored, and rarely do matches end quicker than 30 minutes, so that's a big reason more than 2 or 3 supports max is not ideal.

What's funny is the reverse doesn't seem to matter at all these days. As long as you have enough team fight and/or stuns you can run 5 carry lineups and just wreck people yet your team will bitch all day about not having supports. A mirana, wk, sven, troll, sniper team for example, plenty of stun, shitloads of dmg.

Question is: which hero you name support? You may have have carry Lina and support Troll... and it may actually work.

well I think that it depends on the heroes, someone like disrupter, silencer, Enigma or WD isn't really going to fall off late game and can make good use of farm that cores don't/can't take woulden't be bad on a 3 support team. on the other hand heroes like tree, KOTL or Chen will just be useless late game so if your team has 3 or even just 2 heroes like this your odds of winning start to go down as you get into the late game. since its easy to come back and hard to take high ground early in this patch you really can mess up your team composition with too many heroes who fall off.

Just pick 5 cores with long range wave clear, lose early game hard, defend high ground for 20 minutes then win 1 fight ez

That may seem the case in a meta where matches get to the late game a lot more often, but in the end it's all about decision making.

@12 silencer can go carry, that's why he doesn't drop off, same with necrophos, same with some other str supports, same with venomancer. Support is pretty vague term.

The only problem is there are not enough resources to make the carries at least useful at minute 30:00 and there would be lack of farm in the map to take.

That only applies to certain carries like medusa, spectre, am. Carries like sniper, sf, pa, riki start wrecking way before 30:00. I agree that supports don't have enough right click damage, makes demolishing towers a tad longer.