What if the fury swipes multiplier is based on the current stacks.
Say you're fighting someone tanky and you stack your overpower. Do 6 attacks and get +180 damage. Then enrage for +540, +630, +720, +810, +900, +990 damage...?
Unless it's just a flat +120 damage from the base fury swipes. In which case gg.
With 6 attacks from overppower you will deal 900 extra damage. If you manage to stack 2 overpowers and land 12 attacks it will deal extra bazillion damage, which is a lot.
Ursa is all about quickly bursting enemies not afk farming the jungle. His ult wasnt fit for the way he is suposed to play. His new ult might be better than you think.
And youe arguments are kinda useless. 1v1 comparing dorsnt mean much. And lategame ursa with abyssal +blink will kill troll until he has time to react.
Fury Swipes does 30 additional damage per attack, assuming it's Enrage level 3 (300% damage) and we take out the base 100% damage to focus only on the additional 200% damage:
1 attack: extra 60 damage
2 attack: extra 120 damage (total 180 damage extra)
3 attack: extra 180 damage (total 360 damage extra)
4 attack: extra 240 damage (total 600 damage extra)
5 attack: extra 300 damage (total 900 damage extra)
6 attack: extra 360 damage (total 1260 damage extra)
Compared to the previous Enrage (7% of current health and a LOT more spammable) at say 2000 HP.
6 attacks x (7% of 2000 hp) = 840 damage
You'll need 3000 HP to get 1260 damage in 6 attacks with the old Enrage.
However the previous Enrage lasts 15 seconds with a 25 seconds cooldown (10 seconds downtime)
The new Enrage at level 3 lasts 4 seconds with 40 seconds cooldown (36 seconds downtime)
The damage stacked from the previous Enrage is already high enough, I don't think there is a need for more damage from Enrage.
Therefore I think we should focus on the 80% damage reduction and debuff removal implementation. Do you think it's worth it for the downtime? Personally for me not really, Ursa loses the ability to weave in and out of battle with his phase boots, overpower and blink to fight extended battles. Most importantly I rely on Enrage a lot for random ancients/jungle and to take down towers/barracks. The previous Enrage just provides so much more utility through out the game.
The 4 seconds' worth of 80% damage reduction and debuff removal is too situational for my liking. It's good only for 4 seconds and you're having your damage nerfed for the next 36 seconds.
Also with this new Enrage, I believe you should not use it immediately when you jump into a battle on the first stack of overpower (where usually it is also hard for people to react and deal damage to you immediately when you blink in).
Save it for the second stack of overpower to really abuse the damage, bait out some sort of debuff on you from enemies first (which is quite subjective and situational since you can't actually Enrage if you get stunned ... sigh) or save it for a clutch fight turn-around with the 4 seconds of 80% damage reduction and bonus damage.
Thus for the first 6 attacks without Enrage:
1 attack: extra 30 damage
2 attack: extra 60 damage (total 90 damage)
3 attack: extra 90 damage (total 180 damage)
4 attack: extra 120 damage (total 300 damage)
5 attack: extra 150 damage (total 450 damage)
6 attack: extra 180 dmg (total 630 damage)
When we activate Enrage on the second set of Overpower, and only focus on the 200% extra damage from Fury Swipes due to Enrage:
7 attack: extra 420 damage
8 attack: extra 480 damage (total 900 damage extra)
9 attack: extra 540 damage (total 1440 damage extra)
10 attack: extra 600 damage (total 2040 damage extra)
11 attack: extra 660 damage (total 2700 damage extra)
12 attack: extra 720 damage (total 3420 damage extra)
But seriously who's going to get hit 12 times for the stacks to get up that high. You'll most likely be doing a new 6 attack stacks on a second hero when you activate Enrage. I'll much rather have the previous Enrage for longer sustained fights and go on 2-3 different heroes, instead of having a solid victory over 1 hero but that's really dependent on your playstyle.
The only real use right now is probably to use as a clutch turn-around skill to win a losing fight by reducing the damage taken during the fight (eg. eating an omnislash) or when you really need that extra burst to take down a very important hero.
Very importantly now you also can't use Enrage on towers ... that's 140 extra dmg lost on towers per hit.
With 2 sets of overpower (12 hits) that's 1680 damage. :/
TL;DR
Short downtime constant +140 base damage or so with the old Enrage (25 seconds duration, 10 seconds downtime) vs long downtime clutch turn around skill reducing 80% incoming damage + high burst damage for 4 seconds (downtime 36 seconds).
Ursa also lose a huge chunk of tower pushing power since Enrage won't work on buildings.
I think it's a slight buff for fights but it forces Ursa players to change the way they play and people are usually not receptive to changes. Now you have a strong turn-around skill but you can no longer spam it to snipe solo pickoffs as often as before.
I really like it much better the way it is before personally, since it's also better for NCing (when you're waiting for an opportunity to catch someone out) and for taking down towers. Overall I consider it a huge nerf mainly for losing the Enrage damage on towers and barracks ... it's a sad day to remember for Ursa pickers.
This is definitely not a nerf to ursa. I tested this in the Dota 2 test client. I gave Ursa Abyssal and Refresher and the enemy centaur 6 hearts. They are both lvl 25. With this combo you can burst down the full health Centaur in less then 6 seconds while stunlocking him. Just spam fury swipes and enrage in succession and he's done. I find the ability to do this is actually ridiculous.
He can do this every 195s and then he will be useless for the next 40 seconds. It's just insane single target damage with very long downtime. Not to mention that he will be with few hp. I think this killed Ursa.
@Marlan:
I hadn't considered that it might be based on current furry swipes stacks. If that is the case, then the new enrage will be better (although still not as good as the old enrage)
@keisuke89
Yup, I agree. And you make a good point about the tower pushing too.
@POLYDANKA
Ok but the issue with the enrage change is the duration decrease and cooldown increase. I'm glad to know ursa can still burst down a tanky centaur, but after that's over, the enrage bonus is also over. With the old enrage, you could keep the bonus for most of a teamfight (refreshing it every 10 sec).
@Hello Friends
80% damage reduction is fantastic, no one's arguing that. The issue is that the long cooldown and short duration changes Ursa fairly dramatically. As keisuke89 points out, the old enrage could be used to push towers. The new enrage can't push towers (towers don't take fury swipe stacks).
Guys how is it not a buff? Anything giving ursa some survivability and immunity to cc is great. Let your team init, blink on enemy carry, blow them the fuck up and it's a 5v4. You might even be able to skip bkb now and get quick basher, deso, crystalis etc cus 4 seconds will be enough time to kill most anyone. So lost tower dmg should be easily made up. 40 second cd is nothing, it's a free bkb on steroids every 40 seconds. If you do go bkb as well you've doubled your potential window to kill people. It will be up every time you engage enemies, cd is very short for what it gives.
@Timberwolf: If enemy has a lot of stuns, you cannot skip bkb. Furthermore, new enrage only works well if you already have fury swipe stacks on your target, meaning that the damage Ursa does when initiating on a target is severely decreased (compared to old patch).
Enrage is not a "free bkb on steroids every 40 seconds." That's just, not true. It dispels debuffs when cast, but doesn't prevent new debuffs from being placed on you after you cast it.
But the duration decrease and cooldown increase are the biggest problems. The old Ursa could spam enrage for farming and pushing, as well as fighting.
oh you're right, free manta on steroids lol. Bkb still needed. Regardless I think it's better than old enrage.
It is an enormous buff to Ursa, but is dependent on the cast point of the spell. It needs to not interrupt his attacks.
I think this is created to make ursa players forget about stacking HP items
This is the situation where ursa's role + item choices should be steered towards hard carrying (such as butterfly, basher, skadi, etc)
While yes, this cuts down his early game potential a lot, don't forget that his new ulti gives him ridiculous damage (with correct items of course)
Still, overall, I think this is a sad nerf
I hope you'd adapt, ursa lovers :(
I really don't get the whole bitching about the new ultimate. It clearly is a huge buff to ursa, especially when we are taking about pub games.
There is a damage buff with the new Enrage, but Ursa can already burst down almost any carry with the current Enrage.
The debuff removal is almost useless since the most crucial disables like silences (or QoP/Storm Orchids), hex and stuns can't be debuffed. You can remove debuffs like disarm from Heaven's Halberd or some random slows but the things you can remove are really too limited.
The really good part is that the 80% damage reduction can be used to absorb damage from skills like Jugg's Omnislash (which is spread over time and you have plenty of time to react and Enrage to reduce damage taken). The other instant damage skills like Lina's Laguna Blade is very situational as you can't Enrage in time to dodge/reduce an attack you were not expecting, but if you went into the fight with Enrage you can delay the Laguna from coming to you for 4 seconds in a fight or make Lina Laguna someone else.
The biggest purpose is really to turn around fights and it can be really big during the 4 seconds you hardly receive any damage. It's a huge buff if you're looking at team fight aspect.
It feels like no one else thinks Enrage is useful for anything outside of team fights (You don't need the 80% damage reduction for solo pick offs anyway).
Does no one else use Urs[A] to demolish towers or play rat dota? I'm always happy to try and sneak a <25% HP T1 tower with Ursa, with pre-cast overpower and running in with phase boots to activate Enrage on T1 tower (when overpower is cooling down) for 12 easy hits on the tower depending on how fast enemies TP over to defend, and have my blink dagger on standby to run away when anyone is coming/TP-ing over.
It's so much damage when you are able to get the chance to rat towers for awhile. 7% current HP damage at 2000 hp (mid-late game) is 140 base damage/hit, with good timing (when your team is distracting the enemy) to focus down towers it's a potential of 12 hits over 3.4 seconds (Ursa's 1.7 BAT + overpower x 2) which is around 1680 damage purely from Enrage on towers and barracks although it's heavily reduced by structures' armor.
Time to time I end up with games where I have both blink and force staff for the mobility both for ratting and for heroes like clockwerk.
Sometimes I also do BKB overpower enrage blink for high ground siege and force staff myself out if they have no bkb-piercing disables, against lineups that make it hard to push high ground.
I also really like the casual ancient farming whenever I walk past them, never took note of the real calculation but it always feels like it's about 30% faster to clear ancients with Enrage (which is a lot when it comes to clearing the Ancients on your enemy's side of the map safely).
The extended up time for the old Enrage also provides you more overall damage over a period of time. Utilizing the 4 seconds 80% damage reduction is going to be huge, and honestly for that kind of utility 40 seconds is a really short cooldown.
It's a huge change in the way people play Ursa where it is going to be more team fight oriented than before and less of solo pick offs/sniping towers (with reduced ancient nc-ing).
But when your team gets outpicked (eg. they have BKB piercing team fight ultis like RP and chrono) you lose your ratting option to try and change the game which is why I don't like it. The current Ursa does not sustain in fights as long as the new Ursa but I feel it provides more options to the game currently (in terms of farming, sniping towers and barracks).
He kills Rosh much faster. He can jump in with hex+BKB & kill ANY hero (as someone mentioned even 6 hearts Centaur) during hex duration. Not to mention he is actually now the only hero who can solo Roshan early on. It's a huge buff, I think he might be OP currently.
i didnt think it would be that good when i read the patch notes but good lord do you do a lot of damage in real games
so what is the cast point on it ? if its the same not faster then it will be suicide to cast it in the middle of team fight....if you pre cats it and blink you will be probably losing like a second or 2 of your ulti....
This new 4 sec ulti sucks. You can stun him or kite him until the 4 secs is over. Needs a bkb and blink.
Cast point is a big deal, the old enrage cast point is awful. New one better be instant. Or maybe not cus I don't want to have to spam ursa like old troll lol.
now dont need to buy hp items for ursa now you need to buy damage items and target enemy core in battle then remove him with y our 4sec ulti and win fight cause they dont have core
maybe this hero isn't garbage but most people who play ursa are garbage
they don't realize how strong his solo pickoff potential is with a sheepstick, and they run into fights without bkb and just die soon afterwards for god knows what reason
it's kind of like terrorblade when tb was released, people would just build stupid items and not farm at all when that hero farmed 10 cs/min easily
(oh and you gotta love those 0-4-4 builds, not like earthshock is an amazing slow xD)
my opinion is that he's decent now, but u have to practice him. also get silver edge against heroes like void/pa/bristle instead of blink, or else you get raped by those passives
slark is a better alternative, though
The gameplay with ursa is... buy items with atack speed... blink+slow 3 hit random+activate op+enrage... i think..
Пријавите се да бисте поставили коментар.
Enrage:
=======
Ursa goes into a frenzy, causing him to take 80% less damage from any source and for his attacks to deal 2/2.5/3 times the Fury Swipes damage. Removes any existing debuffs upon cast.
Fury Swipes Multiplier: 2/2.5/3
Duration: 4
Cooldown: 50/45/40
In my opinion, this is actually somewhat of a nerf. The following paragraphs go into detail as to WHY this update is a nerf to ursa. Some people will probably disagree with me, but please at least skim my points before saying that Ursa has not been nerfed.
The old enrage had a cooldown 25 and a duration of 15 seconds, meaning that there was only a 10 sec time gap between engrages. In other words, ursa had a frequent damage bonus equal to 5-7% of his current health. This meant three things:
1) ursa could gain massive amounts of bonus damage for 15 seconds every fight
2) ursa could build strength items (like heart) and gain more from them than even strength carries did. For example, Heart would give him 74 bonus damage with enrage activated.
3) ursa's strength gain and agility gain are both decently high, meaning his overall damage gain per level (base dmg + enrage damage) was fantastic.
Now, with maxed fury swipes and maxed enrage, ursa gets only 90 bonus damage for 4 seconds (as opposed to the usual 100 something + bonus damage for 15 seconds). Also, the cooldown is now 50/45/40, meaning enrage is no longer a farming tool (before, you could use enrage to help farm jungle or lane).
Before, you could prepare overpower and enrage before jumping on a target. Now, because of the enrage duration decrease, you pretty much have to use enrage AFTER you jump on your target.
Of course, we have to consider the other side of the enrage change: the damage reduction and debuff removal.
The debuff
Well, Ursa frequently builds bkb as a situational item, and most slows don't pierce bkb. And if Ursa gets stunned, then he won't be able to use enrage to remove the stuns. Unlike slark's debuff removal, Ursa's debuff removal happens almost as soon as it's cast (slark could "wind up" his debuff removal in antcipation of stuns. Ursa cannot).
The damage reduction
80% damage reduction is very nice, but it only lasts for 4 seconds and it doesn't necessarily "work" with Ursa as a hero. Ursa specializes in jumping on targets (often disabled targets) and dealing a crap ton of physical damage. He values "damage output" over "survival."
The 80% damage reduction is most relevant when Ursa is manfighting another carry. So let's look at how it will work in some sample manfights:
Troll vs. Ursa
In 6.83, Troll was one of the biggest problems for Ursa becauseTroll could out-manfight Ursa on equal farm (around 15 min +). The issue for Ursa was not necessarily Troll's damage, but rather the Troll-permabash (permabash was obviously a problem for other carries too). Yes, the new Troll has been nerfed, but he still has permabash potential, and the 4-sec 80% damage reduction is not going to stop permabash.
Void vs. Ursa
If Ursa is prescient enough to pop enrage before chrono, fantastic. If not, then he will take a beating in chrono. And the 80% damage reduction is not going to stop time lock. Oh yeah, and void can now buy basher.
Phantom Assassin vs. Ursa
The enrage update is actually good for Ursa in a PA vs. Ursa fight. Let's say PA would normally crit for say, 1600 damage. Now, she would only hit Ursa for 320 damage.
Ok, but what about in teamfights?
Well, yeah, 4 seconds of 80% damage reduction is obviously helpful. People might try to compare it to slark's ult. But consider the following:
1) Slark's ult not only protects him from practically all physical damage, but also protects him from single target stuns and hexes. Ursa's ult does not.
2) Slark gains a crap-ton of health while "in" his ult. Ursa does not.
3) Ursa's ult's cooldown is, on average, 15 seconds shorter than Slark's ult's cd. But I'd rather have slark's "better" ult on a longer cooldown than Ursa's "worse" ult on a shorter cooldown.