Blink almost 100% of games fo sure assuming you're mid.
If for some reason you have a wisp with you, then you can skip it as the wisp is your blink.
Get it sub 10mins and every support on the map dies.
I never get to mid with tiny, I generally have to go offlane, or sometimes if team picks support I get safelane.
Silver Edge on Tiny is also very good. The combined damage with the Avalanche/Throw Combo is huge.
Both are fine, if you go ganking tiny you still finish him up with aghs and ac/moonshard though.
ive been playing with low mmr friends and going lothars usually, its pretty fun as the combo is both easier to do and more damaging than with blink
you lose a lot of cool shit though, like being able to blow someone up behind tower/thru sentries and blinking on someone to toss them to ur team
u should always buy treads aghs bkb etc, farming wherever you can and blowing people up when theres the opportunity
usually you dont want to sacrifice farm for kills though, only if you have other carries or the enemy team is extremely vulnerable/stupid (aka aa+cm+sf+mirana)
Usually you pick tiny so you dont have to go bkb as he is tanky and fast, If I would rlly need bkb I would build it after I have aghs and some attack item.
Mom and shadow do wonders for his dps, he can easily rack up 1200 dmg using his toss combo and right clicks with that build.
^ I dont know why ur so toxic and dont know what to say trying to prove something.
I never said ur bad or bad at tiny, I said indirect stats can show up different and I gave you an example.
I can see why ur in low prio now.
blink is still immensely powerful even with a wisp.
assuming you are playing competent opponents, the second you begin relocating they start running away. blink lets you close the gap before they can make any escape plays.
Someone really got a big ego. Form is temporary, class is permanent. A 56% win rate with a sample size of 400+ games played using Tiny sounds pretty credible to me.
Patches and line-up do play a major part in win-rates. For some one who don't play Tiny and have a career win-rate of 40% (2/5 with him), why don't you go play at least 100 games of Tiny and really have substantial experience playing him first before acting all almighty? 6.83 and 6.84 does not really favour tiny and I doubt you can maintain a positive win rate after 100 games on him.
People like you really turn me off.
Actually that's incorrect. No data is credible without context.
While YNIT's stats with tiny do show proficiency what they cannot show without context is skill. If you look at "equal" skill sample size the amount of games YNIT has played closest to the bracket kitrak plays in his has only 30 games of which I would venture 100% of them are stacking, whereas Kitrak plays almost exclusively solo in a bracket much higher to that of YNIT.
To put it into context I have played with people who play in high skill on X hero, then when playing with them was massively unimpressed with how they performed because while they are proficient, they show proficiency in a much easier set of circumstances.
Also know your stats please.
"u have 24% wr this week anybody can talk like you" he actually has much more so this statistic is incorrect.
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/187824320/matches?date=week&hero=&skill_bracket=very_high_skill&lobby_type=ranked_matchmaking&game_mode=®ion=&faction=&duration=&timezone=Europe%2FLondon
"u have a 47% winrate in ranked on tiny" Correct
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/18354783/matches?date=&hero=tiny&skill_bracket=&lobby_type=ranked_matchmaking&game_mode=®ion=&faction=&duration=&timezone=Europe%2FLondon
"40% winrate in ranked vhs on tiny" Correct
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/18354783/matches?date=&hero=tiny&skill_bracket=very_high_skill&lobby_type=ranked_matchmaking&game_mode=®ion=&faction=&duration=&timezone=Europe%2FLondon
Kitrak does accurately point out that games are being won in a easier set of circumstances ergo the context makes the sample size less meaningful.
What people as players need to learn is that you can glean information from both sides. A good player with a small sample size would still have valuable information to impart as would a player of lesser skill with a much bigger sample size.
I thought I saw that, weird.
Well 34% wr tiny overall even in pubs. w/e
cant just twist on looking at someone wr on certain hero. Infact Tiny was my hero that I picked when I thought I will lose, so mabeI could turn it into win.
OHHH, Now I see, he went on winning spreee, looks like you didn t see it when I wrote it.
I'd just like to point out Games & Winrate% of a hero aren't always accurate representations of skill level...
I'm 75% Winrate with Ursa over 70 games. But I actually don't see myself of that amazing of an Ursa player. I just learn really fast and used it to stomp normal skill games back when I was there.
"I will never have a wisp I am 3.3 k is tiny better mid or safe lane"
Tiny won't get farm vs good ranged mids and he has no starting armor so he will get harassed. Your farm will suffer a lot and you'll only be able to combo kill them if they are stupid. I'd play him vs melees but that's probably it. Safe lane is where it's at.
Drums also quite good on tiny, you'll have the mana pool for your combo. IIRC you cannot perform your combo before level 4 without getting a circlet or two or three branches. Tiny's base mana is ~180 and he gets only ~20 per level and his combo takes 240.
I agree that statistics does not tell the full story. But it is really toxic for someone with 5 games of tiny played (bar any smurfs he has) to act so almighty and claimed to be proficient in that hero. I have see a lot of high mmr to play like scrubs just because they are not proficient in that hero.
There are ao many variations in dota and you will only experience them if you play the hero for a long time.
I just feel turn off by him and has to sprout this out.
what is your mmr bracket that people don't let you go tiny mid? he's one of the best heroes/snowballers out there provided you take control of your lane or at least the ganks/roam then you can transition really well into late game, i'd say bottle dagger circlet 2 branches (depends on you now whether to wand or not to wand) and you're set already for killing, as a player who mains tiny i did a lot of experimenting on his main core item since tiny's AS sucks the more you level his SS it goes from bad to worse. i've come to try out builds where i balance AS + mobility for getting ava toss in + the attack speed to hit them afterwards ( i never go phase on him if he survives and i can't chase it's my fault and i just have to blink in 12 seconds later) anyway i've tried bottle builds where instead of dagger i go for:
madness ( requires estimation where i activate it with just around a few seconds of the buff left to spare go for avatoss then maximize the remaining time to hit hard with the buff, this was pre ms madness nerf tho)
shadow blade ( long cd is really bad for getting out and it lacks the quick initiation of blink )
all in all it resulted me in still going for dagger in my games.
anyways one thing is for certain, there was a time in my earlier games where i discovered how good drums were and i almost build it to a lot of my heroes then i just stopped given that i need to be economical with him so i just go min max with bottle dagger and a little stats and rush aghs, heck if you have a hard time surviving after initiation go for either glimmer cape or manta ( yes core manta after blink then rush aghs) justification: with heroes like pudge who tends to survive that avatoss combo well with manta you can give him a 33% chance to hit his dismember or run away from 3 hard hitting stones
if you have a wisp i tend to go drums on myself but if i remember the rare instances where i am forced not to mid with tiny i still go bottle instead of drums or soul ring, hard to play without it :D
P.S. just sharing my thoughts on my fave hero, although advice is coming from a 3k player that gets to mid with the hero tho
2.9k MMR, i generally don't want to first pick coz i'll always get countered, and no one picks support or utility, expecting last pick, so I always have to solo off
As I said, statistics does not tell the fully story, but for some one that had played so many games as Tiny, I am pretty sure he had faced much more different scenarios and variations with him than some one who had played only 5 games as Tiny, and is more proficient in this hero than you. MMR measure your overall skill level which is essentially an average of all your heroes MMR. This is straight forward and you do not need to have a professional certificate to deduce this. I am pretty sure if YNIT is going to create a smurf and play exclusively Tiny, he is going to have a much better result than his main account.
You keep acting as if mmr is a non-issue by saying competent players does not exist in rmm at any rmm. Then you flame people for being 3k as a 5k? How contradicting are you? Also, overall impact within a game has no corelation with the bracket that you are playing in.
I am not sure about YNIT being egoistic as I am not familiar with him and am not aware of his posts, but it is pretty clear within this thread that you just have a big ego looking down on people. There is a difference between sarcasm and being plain toxic. People like you are just plain toxic. You just flame people in your post and then write an essay to defend yourself. This is just straight lame.
I am not pro and my mmr range from 3800 to 4500 if this number is what you are interested in. If you are going to judge people based on mmr then go ahead and look at this world with your myopic view. I think it is pretty clear within this thread who is the toxic one with big ego.
in regards to the other comment i have never bothered to get myself a stout shield maybe in an instance where i can tell my sppts to give me 2 tangos which i don't ask for but genrally i never do, 2x branch + circlet is enough to net you with an avatoss at level 2 or a 2nd cast of whichever nuke you took at level 1 + not to mention that if you're lucky enough on last hitting against someone who can't harass properly you're sure to get a bottle before 2:00, rushing bottle means you can sustain hp and mana while harassing them and along with the fact that they can prove stupid enough to expose themselves to an avatoss also what kitrak said is quite true, not to brag or anything but i've won a lane/game against a storm at around 4k mmr i think one of the heroes i wouldn't fight at mid and genrally give up picking tiny is a competent viper, fcking destroys you all around
Hmmmm so I guess I could go circlet tango 2 branches for 400 gold then rush bottle? Last couple games . I went rop and tangos for 325 gold then rushed bottle and it worked ok but I think I'll try the stats next time I just hope I can get enough cs through harass to get a bottle before 2 mins.
how do you kill anyone mid? They'll see you moving towards them to combo and just back up. You won't kill them avalanching from a distance and following up with toss unless they are stupid as shit and let their hp go below half. tiny has zero starting armor and will lose a ton of hp in lane. I just don't see him as a good matchup against any non melee.
You wait until they are going for rune to refill bottle then either they have to let you get every rune or you kill them with combo then most likely get rune anyways for ur bottle . It seems like you just gotta catch them once trying to get rune then u got the advantage mid and it gets a lot Easyier or u get Good ganking rune after killing them and go kill side lanes and game takes a very good turn for ur team. Other than that you try to get what cs you can even tho it's hard but most heros tiny should win rune battle . This is my limited experience .
BETTER THEN 6 GAMES 33% WR ayyyy lmao
If that was me I wouldn't even go to a tiny thread, xDDDDDD
direwolf if you have bottle then you can try to toss once or twice then go with a pre mature avatoss (meaning you stun then catch up with a toss without the attempt of actually trying the combo itself just the sequence)
EDIT: and seriously try to get CS because them harassing you for attempting to CS is the creeps hitting back for you which would probably minimize the need to harass back with just one toss then after 10 seconds hit back with stun toss
@filthy the point of circlet tango + 2 gg branch is for the min max mana pool for an avatoss + the chance you might need to go wand
Thats a lot of money for items you will sell anyway, tanges 2 branchs are enough,
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=357131170
This build is a bit outdated but most is good, will fix it today.
tango 2 branches are a bit minimalistic although hypocritical for me for when i said min max, i haven't tried that tho 2 branch + tango, probably because you didn't opt for a stout shield and you face lane harassment hence i always build a circlet 1.) for the possibility of wand 2.) for all around stat bonus that gauntlet (cheaper + 1 str more but doesn't offer the small mana pool added)
you won't obviously stand in front of creeps auto attacking them while getting hit back obviously you'll want to draw creep aggre since if they harass you chances are creeps will attack back then just hit back with avalanche, and with the sustenance provided by bottle you're on your way to getting that kill in after the cd of avalanche, probably in higher mmr bottle rush is a stupid idea for tiny, but i tend to make do with the rush with other 3k mid players against them
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Is tiny better to be played as a early nuker with blink/shadow blade, or is it still better to go right click with early drum yasha aghs?