1 - Chaos Knight
2 - Storm Spirit / QoP of Pain
3 - Undying
4 - Venge
5 - Dazzle
1-1-3 or 2-1-2 depending how game goes.
Mid/Carry buy BKB and radiance doesn't hurt if Spectre gets it. If Spectre builds man-fight. CK can lock down and man-mode him. Dazzle grave+weave will make CK even huger vs. the Spectre.
Storm/QoP can easily beat Zeus.
Undying/QoP/Storm/CK have no issue with Clock. Venge can also Swap out/Stun/Debuff for fight. Dazzle can grave. If Clock hooks CK, he will get gibbed by shadow wave+CK illusions.
Earthshaker isn't that scary when CK has 3k HP. If ES does somehow get big, Venge or Dazzle can save CK with swaps or graves.
Silencer isn't scary except for silence. Carry and Mid will buy BKB. Undying will always initiate with tombstone so thats no big deal. CK could also Manta.
Easier laning. Better teamfight (they don't have any push either). Easier MMR.
Every line-up can be beaten.
@ Marlan:
I will assume is 2-1-2? That team lack a decent solo off-laner. 1-1-3 is therefore super easy to counter...
@Marlans lineup
1-Gyro
2-Skywrath
3-Phoenix
4-WW
5-Disruptor
(fuckn birds ftw) in theory its ez. execution needs some practice though. and a force staff on disr is a must here. Objective is to delay bkb on mid and ac on CK as long as possible w lots of snowball and forcin teamfights from early on - peakin at around lvl 7-10 and then its important to not make mistakes. pushin early hg should be no problem as well.
It's not even a good line-up. I would just go aggro tri against Spectre, put any hero against Zeus and let him farm against him and put Lesh against Clock so he has a very easy lane and helps the push afterwards.
1-Jug
2-Mag
3-Dark Seer
4-Jakiro
5-Bane
Early game pressure on the safe lane to stop roaming or just ruin farm if the supports insist on roaming. Bane stacks/pulls and roams on mid with sleep skewer, should wreck mid sky if he comes too close to mid (given that mag knows how to block and maintain eq in this theoretical game).
empower morbid mask jug for the stacks that bane was makin (that only really gyro could contest, maybe WW if she maxes W... but then their safe lane gets really pressured by ds.
Mid game fights should be easy with empowered omni on top of the rp'd walled macro/ice pathed enemy team with grip for bkb'd gyro if he gets that much farm.
as soon as the farm war goes later than 25-30... bane stops your only damage and jug goes to town... prolly a basher in there somewhere for jug... I dunno... depends how the game goes.
1-Slark
2-Storm
3-Tidehunter
4-Mirana
5-Abaddon
abaddon will ruin your ganks, meanwhile you will be in fear of mirana appearing somewhere
your teamfight is also limited by tide as his kraken shell will purge a lot of your stuff to followup with ravage and counterinitiate
you don't have any way to deal with slark neither storm except bane, which is solvable by abaddon again
also your lineup is kinda greedy and even then, slark can fuck up any of those heroes even in late game
1 Lesh
2 Windranger
3 Puck
4 Rubick
5 Crystal Maiden
My tri lane of Lesh, Rubick and CM will slaughter your Gyro, Dazzle, SD
- spam skill, nova, lift, lightning slow, stun, frost bite - whatever combo of these can't save you from defensive skills of disrupt and grave
- at best, you can live by playing defensively but my Lesh will have better farming than your Gyro
Puck and Wind can easily kill everyone except axe
You don't have enough lock down other than Axe Call so my team can easily kite and outflank you during engagements with just Force Staff
Oh now I understand the point of this. But you know this is all only theory crafting and will almost never work intended in a real game.
1. Luna
2. Lina
3. Wind runner
4. Vengeful spirit
5. Crystal maiden
Just went Charlie's angel on ur ass , nuff said.
@ Mekarazium ok, so u are not sad i will reply to urs. just hard, cuz u gave so many hero options. (like WK or Ember..)
1-AM
2-Invoker
3-Timber
4-AA
5-Lion
good night sweet prince. oh yes, always rdy to clash, low CD's but high impact. late game when u cannot defend AM's splitpush. Poor dazzle :(
@BlackXargon's lineup
1-Tony
2-Silencer
3-Earth spirit
4-WW
5-Io
Silencer as core will do good here. tony + io will burst all these heros down real ez and just to be immense cancerous ES will profit from ur weak and slow ass INT lineup. gonna be a pleasure to catch ur team out of position and if u decide to 5 man early, silencer will just make ur spell dependent heros stand around and make them wait for better times.
ok, now someone else responded already. takes a while to respond to everything. just dont skip him.
@Sam, it's good for learning stuff like who to ban out and good synergies etc. As soon as skill comes into it... x player on x hero is never going to work as intended... that guy may only play 3 heroes... all of which are out of meta atm lol (poor bulldong). But it's still good to flex the dota brain a little.
@mek, you broke the the first rule...the whole no giving multiples for each role... makes it pretty impossible to say "this will win outright"... since some of those heroes are massively different in concept.
naga mid ez win with almost anything. I'd prob send an aggresive trilane and solo rape the clock
But it's not even realistic. You don't draft your lineup after you know their entire lineup. It's done one by one with bans involved.
I didn't say it was realistic... I even said it's good for learning who to ban out vs a specific strat... and trying to figure out the ultimate dick over of a strat can help figure out what the strat is weak to... and seeing the ultimate dick over of your own strat can help you see what your strat is weak to... and above all... it's only a bit of fun D: ... and more interesting than complement the guy above you.
i usually always pick a good 1v1 hero for those scenarios, like for example i'd take an early sf if i wanted him or a mirana or a sand king or whatever strategy i'd like to held open.
after the zeus i'd improvise them for safelane and see if i have a mid for dealing with zeus for an ez win. If not then i'd go for mobile supports and something to get a draw from mid.
@hushhush
1 - Luna
2 - Viper
3 - Necro
4 - Chen
5 - Witch Doctor
Luna can easily win against Earth Spirit
Viper Mid will be tanky enough to handle Tiny + IO but Witch Doctor can easily rotate support when needed
Witch Doctor can neutralize relocate ganks with cask
Necrolyte can handle versus a dual lane of Silencer + WW
Chen can jungle with no contest and get mek + scepter and be effective against a Silencer
Mid game, we can just group up and push. as soon as Luna gets BKB, we can push through any towers with the sustainability that we have on Chen Mek + Necro Heal + Scepter + WD Heal + Viper Tank + Luna DpS.
this is kind of pointless.
every line-up can be beaten if you get to perfectly pick every hero you want.
and the thinking isnt really useful because this will never happen in a real game.
imho, if you say there's no point in this because this doesn't happen in real game because it's sequential pick-and-bans
= this means you don't draft flexible enough.
I'm a firm believer that lineups beat lineups (many-to-many). If a particular hero gets banned, that doesn't always mean that my draft is fcked up already. I could always plug-in an alternative pick of some sort (i.e. Chen is banned, well I could pick Enchantress instead, etc)
factors such as objectives, laning, high-level strategy (mass force staffs, mass dagons, etc, early tower pushes, etc)
when people criticize you, its hate
then you go about criticizing others like its 100% right
regardless, its sorta fucking obvious why this thread is pointless. you're never going to encounter an actual situation in game where you can outdraft them using the information here
" If a particular hero gets banned, that doesn't always mean that my draft is fcked up "
its not about your hero being banned, its about them not going to pick heroes weak into yours in a proper CM or Ranked draft you fucking genius
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1-Spectre
2-Zeus
3-Clockwerk
4-Earthshaker
5-Silencer
Easy laning. Easy global execution. Easy MMR.
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Legend: 1 - Carry ; 2 - Mid; 3 - Off-lane; 4 - Support; 5 - Hard Support
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RULES (to be edited along the way):
1) Must draft specific heroes. Don't give alternative options. It has to be exact so the next commenter can argue properly.
2) You can mention specific strategies such as "jungling", "ancient farming", "rosh level 1" to help you with your argument
3) Be clear with your arguments as to why you can beat the lineup