General Discussiondaedelus/mkb/deso/divine storm

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1598826019

legit

also here's something this guy http://www.dotabuff.com/topics/2015-07-12-us-west-looking-for-team-to-queue-with-must-be-45k-smurfy-nyxyxnyx can learn from

depends on your team composition mostly
anyways
deso is bad u wont hit the appropriate timing for the item
best is mjo which synergize with getting out overload procs quickly and highest dps efficiency item(dmg + AS in a single slot)
mkb too as evasion insurance
daedalus is a multiplier item sucks as a 1st dps item even if u got orchid b4

if you're planning on splitpushing with storm isnt deso reasonable even if its a 3rd item

its a waste, storm is supposed to not give people a chance to do shit! thats why you need tons of regen and disables, hes not a pa/sf. where you use shit inbetween hits, in the case of storm it would be hits inbetween skills BUT he doesnt hit much and fast enough for it to be worth it and you already get nice dmg from items like orchid/guinso.

@Benao, thats why I still go the typical bloodstone+hex.

But eventually mana regeneration becomes excessive and overlord procs aren't enough to kill people. Don't get me wrong, I think full rightclick storm is retarded but transitioning once remnant and overload is no longer enough seems reasonable to me.

@loli Will try out mjolnir.

that item's only advantage is tower pushing
mael/mjo probably does more for pushing in the grand scheme of things like pushing creep waves fast, static charge creep wave to remote farm etc, and actually being a useful dps item on its own
like you get a deso, your attack speed problems remain unsolved and you cant always go straight into an attack speed item
situations may call for a hex/linkens/mkb then ure stuck with a shit dps item on its own

The battlemage build, its quite frequent on heroes like QOP, NP, ive even seen Vokers go for it(tho i dont like it). On storm might not be a bad idea but idk, imo its pretty situational on all the int heroes that go battlemage build, sometimes u have no time to stay in place even for a sec to launch a single hit, its all about how the game develops.

Im not entirely against it on storm but i have tested the battle mage build on qop countless times, and i have come on the conclussion that the dmg aint that diffrent (350-400 total dmg with a diffrence of mb 50dmg at max between builds).

When u go full mage build or when u transition on the rightclick build, the diffrence is that on the full mage build u survive quite alot coz of alot of stats and high armor/hp along with the effects that (linkens/shivas etc) grant.

While on the rightclick build im alot more squishy but the procs r insane MKB/daedalus/Armor reduction, but as i mentioned im a glass cannon and quite frequently nor storm nor qop or any other battlemage is gonna trade hits with a 6 slotted AM,tiny,lancer or whatever.

All in all its about what u r facing whether u have the time to stop frequently and keep autoattack or u have to just kite all the time. And i belive storm to be a viable battlemage needs ALOT OF ATTACK SPEED, so that he can use the overcharge asap and move on the next spot, he shouldnt aim to be hittin like a truck.

Cheers

well, it's not storm but it's an invoker built for super physical damage.

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1630342993

You can build anyting on a carry as long as it works well with the team comp.

Play him like he's meant to be played, you skrubs

^who the fuck r u?

only decent suggestion was maelstrom/mjolnir rest is not worth it. (maybe mkb against pa, brew)

lol actually maelstrom mjollnir is more of a waste than desolator!.

and im serious but wont bother explaining.

rapier deso storm is rather legit, cz against certain picks storm is nearly immortal, and therefore becomes a good rapier holder.
mkb is very situational (against pa or smthng like that), crits are purchased just for fun sometimes, but are not the optimal choice imo.

@Arin
hehe

QoP is much better than Storm as a rightclicker I feel. I still don't get why Icefrog nerfed hex to no longer disable evasion.

^I think it was related to the introduction of silver edge. The function of disabling passives was granted to another item.

Indeed, Rapier can be very good on Storm. MKB is very situational and Dagon is often the better choice (also counters Ghost Scepter)

Doesn't he at least need bkb, eul, manta or linken too? He's very fragile if you can disable him, and a lot of people pick silencer and skywrath mage to counterpick.

Molj. is the best phys+mg DPS item you can get as your first dmg item. mkb only if evasion otherwise deadalus is WAYY more efficient dps.

storm doesn't "need" either item. it depends on the enemy team, neither are items you should be getting every game if they're not required.

In all honestly u rarely need a dps item. He deals tons of dmg with just int items.

I personally sometimes go for MKB if they have a lot of evasion.

Daedalus on Storm is horrible, u should never ever get it, it's like the worst item. Crit without AS is just shit.

Mjollnir gives great dps & is probably the best dps item besides Rapier for Storm, but it lacks true strike, which is really needed in the era of new radiance, solar crest, when hex doesn't disable evasion.

Desolator is shit item on him, makes no sense. If u really need minus armor for pushing & dmg Assault is much better on Storm. Assault is really good on him if u want to play rat game, want a lot of dmg & want to be unkillable.

Rapier is sometimes a must & Storm is one of the best Rapier holders in the game.

Abyssal was actually insanely good on Storm & it was my choice before they nerfed it & hex. Currently it is much more situational, I rarely get it now.

As a reminder - u shouldn't focus on fighting their enemy carry, but killing supports in fights to make fight 3v5. To do it most efficiently u need a lot of mana & disables. I really rarely lack dmg on Storm, coz his dmg output is just insane with just INT items.

Of course if they have WK, Bristle, Ogre, Viper & other v. tank heroes u will struggle, but if u see such draft why pick Storm.

Because Storm is love, Storm is life

imho an ideal six slotted storm, in the general sense, wud be

Scythe
Octarine
Orchid
Bloodstone
BoT 2
Skadi/Shivas/linkens

He gets enuf damage from all these intelli items and the more tanky u make him the more u can zip zap and disable ppl in team fights. Honestly, look at all those mystic staffs, quarterstaffs, ultimate orbs. He has enuf damage with overload! Why wud u increase his attack speed when the overload attack is limited by use of a spell? Best thing for storm is to just zap around and stay invulnerable. If u manfight carries ur gna die

^ Orchid is good early on but there are better items to get later on once you are 6 slotted. Never seen Octarine Core on Storm but it doesn't do anything on him: you barely get any lifesteal because a large portion of your dmg comes from rightclicks and the cd reduction is irrelevant on him

Octarine is horrible on Storm. You need mana regen, not mana pool. Skadi is also horrible for the same reason.

6 slotted Storm in most cases :

Bloodstone
Travels
Orchid
Hex
Shiva
Linken/BKB

Orchid is still amazing in late game, it really doesn't fall off, coz it gives u attack speed & dmg, highly needed by Storm. I would only sell my Orchid if they have zillion euls/bkbs. I would get Mjollnir instead it for dmg or MKB if I need sth against evasion.

I also disagree about Storm being a bad man fighter lol. He actually rapes a lot of carries in 1v1, but I see u struggling to fight carries if u go for shit items like Octarine, Skadi.

^Shiva & Linken are to make u unkillable. It's not about utility for the team...Shiva is esp. great when you're ahead, that's why a lot of Storms go Shiva as 3rd item.

I like damage as a 6th slot. Usually will be like Bloodstone Orchid Hex Shivas Linkens BoTs, then sell Orchid and get Abyssal or MKB whatever
Honestly you have so much damage with those items the DPS item is pure luxury, unless you're against lots of evasion then MKB is important

i still don't understand why people get oct on storm

noobs that dont know how the hero works ^

i still don't understand why not one of storm spirit's skills have any connection to water.

i mean fucking come on.

Shiva's isn't actually that good on Storm IMO. Basically, it offers really low mana regen for its price. The slow isn't that useful in most scenarios and generally although the armor and aura are nice, you should be zipping into good positions where they aren't focusing you down anyway.

It's not the worst item possible but why get it opposed to Hex/Orchid/Eul? Then the next question is, why get it if you already have those?

his agi gains actually awful

wasn't it a statement

One of the recent nerfs to Storm was reduced flying vision from his ult (it's 400 now). So you could argue that the flying vision (800) from popping Shiva's is another reason to get it.

@Hot Sauce
I heard Storm likes water from his Bottle, but this might only be a rumour

you must tell your team to pick razor and disruptor so your spells do more damage

this is like the most basic thing about storm spirit

if you want a balance of utility and damage, abyssal is an uncommon but amazing 6th.

Shiva is a snowballing item. You get it to be unkillable & it wrecks enemy carries really hard if u get it fast. You don't get Shiva as 4-6th slot. You get it in 99% of situations as 3rd item after orchid, bloodstone. If ur playing from ahead Shiva is much better than Hex in most situations. If ur playing from behind then probably Shiva is not the way to go & hex/linken/BKB are probably better as 3rd item.

hex sux

how the mighty have fallen

Storm spirit is a weak hero, come at me.

dont listen to november rain, hes just shitting around

I'd like to correct you all, daedalus #legit

http://www.dotabuff.com/players/81434104/items?date=&hero=storm-spirit&skill_bracket=&lobby_type=&game_mode=&faction=&duration=&enjoyment=any&metric=used

Edit: Not actually