General DiscussionWhat's the deal with Queen of Pain?

Hyperoverrated.

6.85

6.86

She's been secretly getting nerfed.

theyre playing her wrong

she excels at zoning offlaners

@Eriri
She doesn't.

3k mmr proves that statement wrong.

4Head ELLIE JIGGLE

Dominates lane and early game , which makes people think the hero is good, but then feeds the enemy carry for 1000 gold and becomes useless the rest of the game, hence the low winrate.

I srsly wouldnt mind her as sup. Not strong spells late game, mobile, good laner, early game nukes, initiation.
Even offlane could work more than mid. Obviously wr foks her late game or sf or whatever

Support QoP doesn't work for some reason. She is very squishy, but her skills require to fight at close range.

QoP can win if offlaner try to run away from her, but if he calmly eats a tango and starts hitting her back - she lost.

Qop is a offlane hero

shes a good tempo hero

fun hero and i might just main her if only she doesnt have the reputatio nof falling of hard late game

She can't farm neutrals effectively to catch up anymore (like SF), so that's one of the reasons for her lowered winrate

^it's been rather low even before the nerfs

yeah, compared to the other previously popular heroes, they either have more spells (SF and lina) or lower cooldowns (storm and leshrac) in comparison to qop anyway. the damage rescale on scream is pretty minor. idk why those first two values were so weird to begin with anyway.

Same thing always happens. Beyond Godlike, you die once, about 4000 gold for the enemy team. You loose.

Low winrate cause fools don't know how to use blink :D

MAIN PROBLEM IS THAT MOST SHITSTAINS HAVE NO CLUE WHAT ITEMS TO BUILD !!! ORCHID INTO AC + BKB/LINKENS NOT IN THAT ORDER DEPENDING ON ENEMY TEAM INTO BIG DAMAGE ITEMS LIKE MKB/BURIZA
IM FUCKING DRUNK AND IM GONNA STEAM MY GAMES !!! 6K < 2K INC !!!

1.6 BAT FOLKS YOU DONT BUILD A DAMN SCEPTER AND SHIVAS

I still think Scepter is core on her, the 40sec ult is invaluable. Orchid should be gotten first in most cases. I don't think Shivas is bad on the hero.

My advice on 4,5-5k is to not go first, almost never join a fight first. Wait for your teammates to initiate and position yourself for a good ult,try to hit 2-3 heroes; Blink on one of their supps or squishy backline heroes and finish them off.Shivas is invaluable for that cause with a huge slow and vision to ensure the kill as well cancel blinks occasionally. I see many retarded QoPs who blink first, Ult a sole hero, and then die and blame their team for losing the fight.

The orchid ac bkb could work if you're snowballing hard and you just wanna end the game I guess.

shiva's aint bad, but agahs is trash.

Wow... Sorry for the capslock clown mode.
The thing about the Orchid - AC - BKB/Linkens build is that it combines high levels of durability with insane amounts of damage.
Late game you're usually going to replace the Orchid by a Hex.

Shadowblade is also decent since it allows neat pickoffs while still being able to blink out if something goes awfully wrong.

Aghanims scepter is just shit... if you can't farm without it you're bad and you don't need 40s cooldown ; teamfights don't happen every 40s. Getting a scepter with the "I'll kill with ult" mindset is garbage. For 3500 you can have a desolator that will secure many more solo kills and give you an extra edge as a blinking split pusher.

I don't get this deso meme. Aghs helps with the hero's innate squishiness and the reliable damage from aghs is much more than deso would do.Deso just leaves you with 800hp half the game, and a single stun can kill you.Aghs gives you reliable damage every time you need it instead of every 140 seconds and can hit more than one person PLUS goes through bkb while it also adds 450 hp. Not sold on deso.

Actually, deso looks like a gamelosing item. Although it might sound good in theory, you rarely get to attack a lot with qop early, when deso matters most. Moreover, any support ghostscepter/glimmer fucks your shit up whereas with Aghs you can just press R. Splitpushing potential is indeed legit but I don't think it suits QoP as a hero.

I have to try shadowblade on the other hand, that one sounds good.

my problem with qop is i almost always go beyond godlike then i feed 1 kill and game become impossible i cannot transition out of shiva build i feel i need bkb i need atk speed i need lockdown and i cant complement all items in 1 so i endup not making the proper item choice or map movement decisions

Just like heroes like Weaver really loved the increase in base HP for every hero, heroes like QoP of Pain whose main way to deal damage in the early to mid game is burst magic or pure damage really hated that global buff.

I guess...

make sense

I think one more problem is that the hero's actually piss simple so people assume it's easy to play it, when in reality, it's not that easy to pull everything off correctly since you need to have good timings on items, you need to farm properly, you want to gank and need some awareness so you don't take too large of a bite and you have to evaluate your safety with blink etc.

Basically, if you're playing against people who are as good as you are, you need to be pretty aware and have good timings for everything to take advantage of the hero.

im just a 4200 scrub that will never reach 5k :(

cus she sucks, what mid matchup does she really win? She gets short end of the stick vs invoker, sf, windranger, razor, viper. who does she beat besides melee?

She used to be clean up janitor or the hidden hero behind the woods tagging along with the team. Nowadays people are playing riskier and blinking and and dying from what I've seen. Also people are expecting her to be core which she is not. It's like trying to farm mid-late game as SF when you only got euls sceptor, there's no way when they're 3 agility carries on the other team.

Her item pickup are useless too. Compared to say a Lina in the exact position as her, tends to work better late game. For example an agh. sceptor + orchid qop can still lose to late game agility heroes who have life steal or daedalus. So her sceptor is nullified and orchid can't be used cuz she'll die just as quickly.

In a sense people are playing initiator, but in actually in the past she was the "late to to fight" janitor cleanup guy. Then again u could look at chinese plays, they do one man qop ults like no tomorrow. Meanwhile in the past people would Youtube highlight European pros who do 3-4 man ults.

Imo it's nice to try to go Bottle-PT-Orchid, then get Aghs as fast as u can, it helps a lot. Then I usually build AC for fights, then u can go Skadi for not being so squishy and having more slow and more damage, and BKB if needed. Then Scythe, if no BKB.

orchid/scythe-->linkens/bkb--->shivas/ac. im not a shittalker ive played her more than any other hero and has been my main for over 3 years. u might need aghs here and there tho im not a big fan, i have experimentet with it and mostly end up horribly even when was coupled with shivas.

Rightclick qop is rly good its actually extremly good if u start snowballing the problem is it always depends on the enemy team if u r able to stand for a sec to hit or u have no time to hit things and u need to run around kite/disable ppl.

She is squishy as fuck tho 1 armor holyfuck. She wins most of the mid matchups which is a smth good so u have the options open on how u wanna develop in the game the bad thing is that u cant comeback like sf coz u r a snowballer type of hero if u dont snowball or at the worse case scenario stay on par with the rest u fall off horribly and become a burden to ur team.

Oh i forgot and about her winrate it was always shitty aslong as i remember has never been above 46% overall while i always had it between 58-60%. its a matter of preference if u like a hero alot u will endup learning the weak and strong points of the hero and ur winrate wont be that shitty. But that is mostly coz of the lower rating games when she is rly easy to lose a game with since she is unforgivable to even the slightest mistake.

She's squishy and especially if you build something stupid like aghs orchid sheepstick so you end up disabling people and not having any follow up damage.

If you go BKB AC Skadi however, you'll be able to stand your ground and kite people for days, and won't die to 2sec stuns lategame most of the time. The point is, the hero can blink, and is played as a core, if you go for the utility build you're depending too much on your safelaner/offlaner to do the damage, and if you're the only one who's had a good time in the laning phase (typical scenario for QoP) and you still build utility, you're just brain damaged, you NEED to carry that shit.

@Kylo

u talk alot of shit for some1 being normal/highskill and u just insulted every proffesional player that has played qop coz every single one of them builds either orchid/scythe/aghs.

Ur build despite lookin good in theory has a bit of a problem coz u will starve for mana most of ur game if u go bkb/ac...u wont be able to farm a single wave with scream coz u will be oom in no time, till the moment u make skadi which will be rly late ingame if im not mistaken.
And ur build excludes the strong point of qop which is being a ganker and nuker, with ur build u wont be able to kill a single solo support in the mid/lategame not even a single one coz any1 of them would have a forcestaff/glimmer/ghost somekind of utility item, u cant disable anything and in teamfight all that u will do is hit with ur +40dmg from 15k inventory which normaly ppl would ignore considering most of the carrys wont even feel it.