General Discussion

General DiscussionDaedalus on Phantom Assassin?

Daedalus on Phantom Assassin? in General Discussion
Ahnni

    Daedalus on P.a? Any thoughts?

    D the Superior
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      Dune, the Desert Planet

        It's garbage.

        Ahnni

          ^any explanation?

          CUTNPASTE

            If you are ahead and you don't need utility items it gives you the best dps/cost aside from rapier. I'm sure there is a place for it situationally.

            casual gamer

              its good

              casual gamer

                casual gamer

                  as u can see the above bluestar fangay has 45% pa winrate and is 300 mmr aboveme

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                  Hi

                    ^ Its not worth it to ever spend so much gold on something the hero has innately.. same reason I would get daedalus on wk or jugg..

                    Yes it provides dmg.. but PA usually already has the dmg.. what she needs is a way to survive battles and lock downs sometimes.. what items like bkb,abbysal can provide..

                    So in the end of the day what I'm trying to say is.. the item is a waste of gold although it provides equitably of dmg.. go for something better.. heck even deso does more for her than daedalus imo.. and it costs way cheaper..

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                    Ahnni

                      holy shit high mmr dudes are commenting here

                      danny

                        I thought that the ways crits worked in dota was that it took the higher percentage crit and only used that one. So doesn't that mean that daedalus PA is just a +81 dmg item?

                        casual gamer

                          yes you get it after bkb and abyssal if you don't need linkens or another item

                          Daedalus and pa crits apply independently

                          Vem Comigo

                            wouldnt be better to go for a mkb them?

                            Mekarazium
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                              kr

                                93% winrate pa player here, daedalus is Excellent

                                Ahnni

                                  are the crits separate?

                                  casual gamer

                                    YES both crits work

                                    they both work with dagger also

                                    only conflict is that if both crits proc in 1 hit u will only get the bigger crit : ur ult

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                                    Ahnni

                                      okay i'll try a new build on p.a

                                      Ahnni

                                        thank sir esperanza

                                        casual gamer

                                          careful dude u get it after ur core items not right away

                                          so go something like phase vlad deso basher bkb abyssal then daedalus

                                          or treads domi bfury bkb basher abyssal daedalus

                                          as long as u have basher + bkb before you go crit u will be very safe, ive done it with crit before bkb and it works if u are very careful only

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                                          ____er-man

                                            if you're going with lifesteal build, daedalus can fit in if you don't need mkb, but still wouldn't recommend in most situation though..

                                            Ahnni

                                              Yes sir, thank you sir

                                              SHINRA TENSEI !!

                                                if u get 2 daedelus,almost all hits are crits :P

                                                Dune, the Desert Planet

                                                  In most games you will need AC or MKB more. It's like über situational and you folks are making a fuss out of it.

                                                  jo~

                                                    It's pretty good

                                                    BenSjodin

                                                      I always get it. Very good

                                                      lm ao

                                                        Remember to stack Daedelus for maximum efficiency

                                                        6.4k posting here

                                                        Supernova

                                                          reported for terrorism

                                                          PMS Mantra

                                                            Yes, but it also means dagger can crit with this item as well, one shotting yet another unsuspecting soul trying to get some farming done. Seriously, when is this blyat dagger going to be nerfed?

                                                            doc joferlyn simp

                                                              dont forget butterfly good sirs

                                                              TripleSteal-

                                                                mkb gives you higher dps than daedalus

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                                                                one syllable anglo-saxon

                                                                  mkb gives you higher dps than daedalus

                                                                  it doesn't
                                                                  daedalus dps is way higher

                                                                  🍩🍪Cookie🍪🍩

                                                                    *-*

                                                                    you can't have 2 independent sources of crit

                                                                    what happens is game will run the chance for first one

                                                                    let's say x% chance, if that fails then it goes to 2nd and the 2nd has an y% chance to proc

                                                                    they won't increase each other's damage at all, it increases only from the stats you'd get from those items.

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                                                                    doc joferlyn simp

                                                                      well cookie you cant really stop a guy from wanting to see red thunderbolts with ominous numbers beside them with every hit his hero does

                                                                      TripleSteal-

                                                                        ^^
                                                                        not for the heroes with natural crits.

                                                                        TripleSteal-

                                                                          actually nvm. i sat down and calculated all the stuff, turns out that for the case of pa daedalus gives u 2-5% higher dps, so as long as you are not playing against any heroes with butterfly, radiance, solar crest, halebard, or natural evasion (which is quite a rare case by itself), daedalus is better. however, u need to keep in mind the mini bash effect (i calculated the dmg, but didnt account on the importance of this thing by itself - cancelling tps and channelling spells, stopping targets from running for a moment, etc.)
                                                                          id suggest not getting any of those in this scenario, though. in short, never going for daed on pa, and only get mkb against evasion. otherwise, go for desolator, basher, and ac/moonshard.

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                                                                          one syllable anglo-saxon

                                                                            daedalus is the best raw DPS item on pa even when you factor in that it will give 85%(actually more since 81 dmg bonus will always work) of it's "normal" DPS

                                                                            i don't even know a hero who would get more DPS from an mkb rather than crit(if u don't count in evasion ofc)
                                                                            i think even if u get 2 daedali on jugg it will give more dps than daed+mkb
                                                                            i'm too lazy to do the math atm yho

                                                                            TripleSteal-

                                                                              it wont work for 2nd daedalus. 3rd daedalus will be worse even for heroes without crits.
                                                                              i alrdy did the maths.

                                                                              Reese

                                                                                you have 0.85*0.25=0.2125= 21% for proccing daedalus crit
                                                                                it works on pa just like any other hero, but you get 4% decreased crit chance
                                                                                i don't know why people consider retarded deso on pa
                                                                                however i would get bloodthorn over deso

                                                                                2k indog monkey

                                                                                  same reason why AM doesn't get blink dagger

                                                                                  TripleSteal-

                                                                                    bloodthrone costs 2x of deso and pa scales into lategame terribly, so u see good players usually going for cheap agressive items - deso, vlads, basher, eventually even armlet; and trying to end the game asap.

                                                                                    one syllable anglo-saxon

                                                                                      ^^value input right there boiz, case closed

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                                                                                      TripleSteal-

                                                                                        kappa

                                                                                        fabi

                                                                                          Bec im bored i'll do the math
                                                                                          Im not the best dota player so this could be shit..
                                                                                          First off all attck modifiers work the same i think
                                                                                          Eg. mealstrom+skadi
                                                                                          Both can't prok in 1 Hit so if skadi gets picked up before it will always be the skadi, but if the mealstrom is first u can get the mealstrom, if not u have a 100% Chance on the skadi
                                                                                          Same for Spells and Items
                                                                                          Spells are almost always picked up before the item and get priority
                                                                                          Same for pa+daedalus
                                                                                          Pa ult gives a Bonus of 450% for 15% so avrg is 67,5% Bonus
                                                                                          Daedalus gives 220% Bonus for 30% so avrg 66%dmg +81dmg(pa crit isnt actually better on avrg)
                                                                                          With both the daedalus has a 25,5% Chance to proc(85%x30%), this gives a avrg of 56,1% Bonus dmg +81 dmg
                                                                                          with buying the daedalus
                                                                                          Compared to the 122 avrg Bonus dmg of mkb and+ 15 attck Speed i think the daedalus cN be a build on a pa with stats Items like skadi or even Butter
                                                                                          All in all i think even a moon shard can give more dmg than a daedalus sometimes, but sometimes it is a good item with high base attck dmg

                                                                                          Riguma Borusu

                                                                                            You can buy the daedalus if you are really that ahead and don't give two shits. But keep in mind that, after you kill all the heroes, you need to take down towers and win the game until their carries start getting online and start buying MKBs to wreck your face (oh and supports will buy ghost scepters unless they are retarded).

                                                                                            So instead of spending a ton of gold for a Daedalus which will certainly improve your damage by a ton, go for vlads/deso build so you can take down towers and have sustain on the map. Like, PA gets her damage from crit and attack speed from blink strike, but how does it work with buildings? It doesn't. So basically as far as attacking buildings goes, PA will have a typical support DPS against them and we aren't talking lvl 7 jakiro here. If you get some attack speed and desolator you can actually push towers and end the game before shit hits the fan (aka everyone gets ways to counter you. Malestrom is a cheap (but good( alternative to battlefury in this regard as it lets you push lanes more effectively, and deso will let you take down towers as well.

                                                                                            I have seen so many retards in 3k blaming their team for the loss, when they'd just played the "battlefury PA" going into lategame against spectres and medusas of the world. I mean, PA without diffusal (or satyr) is terrible even against an ethereal blade or ghost scepter carrier to begin with and people who have any brains will build against PA which is really easy to do if you can stop her momentum and farm up.

                                                                                            #inU

                                                                                              why daedalus ?
                                                                                              did yer ult got silenced or smthing ?
                                                                                              ROFL

                                                                                              Rocket

                                                                                                If Daedalus is the best item available to you, you're probably better off growing a pair of balls and picking up a rapier.

                                                                                                Otherwise, you should probably be getting something to keep you alive/lock down the enemy.

                                                                                                Luxon

                                                                                                  DPS increase from your crit = 52.5%
                                                                                                  DPS increase from crits when you have lvl 3 ult and daedalus = 83.1%.
                                                                                                  Daedalus gives you about 20% more DPS(not taking the +81 damage into account), while it would give 36% more DPS to a hero without any other crit.
                                                                                                  I guess it's ok when you think her crit is too random and unreliable.

                                                                                                  LeFlash

                                                                                                    It can be somewhat decent as a 6th item if the enemy team has no evasion hero or any butterfly carrier, solar crest or whatever, in that case mkb is always gonna be superior.

                                                                                                    MARLAN

                                                                                                      Using this build @ level 25

                                                                                                      ~ Neither Item ~
                                                                                                      You deal 246dmg/hit @ 0.78s/atk for 315dps * 52.5% (ulti) = 480.4dps

                                                                                                      ~ Daedalus ~
                                                                                                      327dmg/hit @ 0.78s/atk for 419.2dps * 84.17% (ulti + daedalus) = 772.0dps

                                                                                                      ~ Monkey King Bar ~
                                                                                                      312dmg/hit @ 0.73s/atk for 427.4dps * 52.5% (ulti) = 651.785dps + (56/0.73)dps (mkb bonus bash dmg) = 728.5dps

                                                                                                      Daedalus is only a marginal increase in DPS (~5-6%) but you don't get the true strike MKB gives, or the mini-bash which is the most important part. You can cancel channels (TPs) as well as interrupt spell casts and attacks (you might think this is marginal but it might be the difference in taking 1-2 less auto attacks from a carry dealing 300dmg/hit) and not to mention the bash stops movement temporarily so you can get an extra hit in someone who is running away.

                                                                                                      MKB > Daedalus unless for some reason you really need 5-6% dps over ALL the utility that MKB gives you.

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                                                                                                      fabi

                                                                                                        ^how about Manta difu pa?