General DiscussionWhat type of alternative builds do you guys consider viable for AM?

Don't pick am, and you will have a fun and good match.

there was a cool thread a while ago about a blue star master race guy going treads-vanguard-echo saber-manta, but the discussion devolved quite quickly since it was a Dotabuff thread after all.

I haven't won a game doing that, though I do a lot better in my 2k games trying that than walking around with a perseverance while my lanes get overrun because we have a jungling legion and 2 offlane cores while I solo

Just pick Sven if you want to win.

You have a free Battlefury, farm a Blink, and Diffusal, and you are AM with much more impact than actual AM.

blink vanguard dagon

Pt vang echo manta abyaal tried it. And its viable, try it mate

Echo is somewhat okay. Not sure if that much better than bf though. Earlier fighting but slightly later 6 slots

If u want fighting am go treads vang manta abyssal. Its just better at fighting cuz every other item on am was good at that cept bf which we removed. I have been wanting to try a radiance instead of bf for memes. Go vang radiance BoT manta octarine abyssal.

Rad for memes

I tried the echo build, felt underwhelming, rather would have gone for BF.

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2744737137

PT/Vanguard or Vanguard/PT depending on the lane. Then get Ogre Axe and complete Sabre, after ES go for Manta and then make Abyssal. Afterwards you go for whatever you need (Fly, AC, Linken, BKB).
PT, Vanguard and Sabre timing should be same as BF timing, aka 12-14 mins or so.

http://www.dotabuff.com/topics/2016-10-26-echo-sabre-am-no-bf

i think the main reason why people are failing with this build is that they didnt change their mindset. with this build you arent supposed to farm 15 mins while your team 4v5s, like normally what an am with a bfury would do.

you play this while farming close to your team, like wherever they are roaming you go there too and farm. be it lane creeps, neuts, or heroes. echo sabre allows you to contribute more to a fight than a ks. dont jump in first however, youre still frail af. so hit someone for the slow, back off. hit some again, and when they notice you, back off. when they start dedicating stuns/nukes for you, back off for a little while. according to the situation continue

play this am like you QO plays his pa. spamming dagger but abusing pa's mobility for easy disengages, and never being in the thick of fight without a bkb

how about vlads mjollnir manta ?

Spunki

the echo sabre build is super fun and legit

im always tempted to finish abyssal before manta even though its an awful idea lol

bf is still the best , for flash farm and clear illusion ...http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2744737137 , no bf vs 2 manta is not a good idea

i would think that one of the better pub am players out there building echo sabre at all would be an indicator that its pretty good

Radiance

As long as my boy Madara isn't building echo sabre I'll stick to BF I think. Like I said in my game it felt underwhelming, I joined some fights and stuff but Luna just farmed up and I couldn't pressure towers like I normally could so when they eventually 5 manned with Jugg the game was cooked. Maybe if they are 100% committed to running at your towers but in that situation does vanguard even allow you to fight? Is vanguard going to do anything when Drow is deathballing your base at 20 minutes?

Anyone ever try building refresher on him?

Back when abyssal had more damage, a way longer cd and refresher had oblivion staff it was viable as a 6th slot to get double bkb and double abyssal blade. Now I think it leaves you lacking too much damage compared to other items. Maybe as a 7th item in stash after you have moon shard and shit incase you want to refresh your tp boots or mana void in between fights or if you have to buyback.

Go for vanguards if u need to, and bf after that. If u have free farm go bf straight. At least thats what ive seen on decent ams who can deal with pressure from enemy team.

tangos and wards build

u dont need vg against pressure, just roh headress tread pms or roh x2 (lol never done this) tread pms

the faster bf is useful to trade tower when enemy team pushes

when i played echosabre am, i found fighting early very effective. but then as what cutnpaste said, i found myself have a lot of difficulty pushing a lane fast enough when the game called for a split push. and i took long time to take towers which in the past was AM's strength. it was difficult to keep lanes pushed out all the time because it took so long to push and u would have to retreat much earlier than usual

I saw RTZ go mjollnir eblade in a game as AM against TB. After he sold his BF, he wound up having like 3.1 mana regen or something retarded as a lvl 25 7 slotted hero. You need the BF to function as AM unless you're selling it for a rapier to end the game.

Or u cud get radiance? Tbh why not the buildup is harder but u go manta, split push a lot, it helps u farm, and the miss chance complements physical tankiness while his passive complements magical tankiness. U might need a mana item tho.

U really need something for mana

Ye. Maybe arcanes into bot then build octa with the mana boot booster

Arcanes am. I'm liking the sound of that build

Idk am is fine with his cookie cutter build

D A G O N!

Funny nobody mentioned orchid/bloodthorn as a 3rd item. That shit does a lot of damage, you got a silence and don't really need an mkb. You also get plenty of mana regen

I tried AM with Skadi and Silver Edge. But it just doesnt seem right

I would get bloodtjorne on am every game after manta abysmal, but I never seem to farm fast enough to get it and I end the game Already. Maybe get orchid instead of bf would work. Hmm

Orchid is so purgeable these days. Everyone has a lotus orb or euls or diffusal.

^ havent encountered in ns so far. U must be close to hs

D fuq how many times have I said my crapfest MMR. I guarantee I have less than u.