General Discussionsf in current patch

miracle's build is obviously the best

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2809623080
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2810153620

stuff like this

sfs builds are really situational

eblade is really good and dragon lance ofc

i like silver edge aghanims and bloodthorn but im not sure if these items are that good on him.

I think the euls blink build has fallen out of favor. Tbh build whatever u need, blink or SB for initiation. Dated, mkb for DMG. Ac, butterfly for hybrid tankiness and DMG. Satanic, skadi for tankiness. Linkens, even ghost scepter into eblade. If SB upgrade IMO silver edge. Pike for mobility. Sny, linkens, aghs (tho I haven't seen pros building it recently), mek (old school but potentially useful in pushing strat), even bloodthorn. Only item that I think is mandatory is bkb.

nope last game i built bkb and the only way i used it was to disjoint pounce.

yeah if u can get away with not building bkb u should definitely do it, i only build bkb if they have a lot of stuns usually so i can survive and get ult off

Sf doesn't want to build bkb, but I feel like he ends up buying it in almost every game.

there are plenty of games when enemy has mostly bkb-piercing disables - like pudge, beastm, enigma, slardar, even anyone with an abyssal blade. so bkb is a waste against them.

^ BKB is there so you can kill the hard disablers on the enemy team that would stop a rampage from otherwise happening. Everything else is for the enemy agility core's demise. Or pick out 1 item that would best counter each enemy hero + boots and you've got yourself a plan on carrying the game. At least that's my line of thought when I play a pos 1 core. If at that point I lose, its my fault, not my teams'. I rarely get to hard carry, though...

Boi, u can't just buy items to counter heroes. Its abt what ur team needs to get done. For example, butterfly is really good at countering enemy carry DMG, but if ur team needs split push, then manta may be the correct choice.

@ywn nice
what do you think of aghs? like blink aghs instead of blink pike?
or aghs instead of bkb if they can't stop you from using ult

dont like aghs a lot on this hero, i feel like his ult does enough damage. The heal has the potential to be really good but i would only ever buy aghs if they have no heroes with magic immunity or bad bkb heroes.

if they have no magic immunity u can 1v5 with refresher aghs its just very situational

If you got blink agh in 20 min you will have a sure win teamfight until 30-35min mark.other than that agh gives 16 damage and if you sold or drop it you still have 46 souls.

@Daddy Then just counter it in both cases with an AC. Team wins when you're with them, you win when you split push solo and it counters enemy p dmg heroes in most cases, in this meta of mkb spammage, better. And no, it isn't about countering heroes solo, its about how do I klll them 1v5 if I have another game of feeders on my team that can't win 5v5 confrontations. If my pos 1 doesn't have the mind set, I would prefer to carry that game instead. BKB is the ultimate core item because it allows to hit a button and go straight for the anti core heroes in the game: the supports. A hyper carries main job is to kill the enemy hyper carry. If I can't do that alone, you better believe I'll be thinking of a way to do that alone. That's all I meant.

Dragon lance aquila bottle and try to end before SF goes irrelevant lol

huehue taking notes

It's just an example. Don't need to dive into it.

I'm not tbh. Just the general way I view position 1 from every other position. Unless you mean the length of the above paragraph. That only took like 2 minutes, though, so no biggie.

Has anyone tried the dagon build kappa

Wait but this is abt sf as mid right? Pos 2

feeling some buffs for sf coming huehuehue

i can feel it in my balls

See I could feel it when u left me here
Left me here
Our emotions are one and the same
So come on over we can persevere
Persevere

SF isn't a hyper carry, but if you don't have a bigger carry, he can act like one even if he does go mid. He can emulate one and do it better than most heroes in the same position. If we're talking pos 2 mid SF, yeah, completely different type of play style.

I always feel the drop off in DMG late game. Its probably my items.

SF DOES fall off in the late game
No matter how much items you have you will always fall off, but that doesn't mean you can't go full DPS

I miss SF man I remember practicing him on unfair bots alot when my internet was down and my DOTA2 was stuck on 6.83 for months

Deso + AC with his passive is an 18 armor reduction. Crit and BKB sweeten the deal to the point you're probably melting enemies faster than a TA can. Deso only has damage and armor reduction, but AC doubles as your major anti agility core item, and helps reduce p damage done to your squishy supports. SF is a really good flash farmer so it isn't beyond the imagination to farm all that within 30 minutes. Maybe a blink or Yasha to accelerate the farm? I suggest forcing plays to happen with smoke or w/e to make sure it doesn't enter the late game after that. Can't always help that, though. Team mates... what a drag.

Thing with full minus armor is that sf is really squishy, so there r heroes who can kite him around if he buys bkb too early and ends up with 5 seconds, or if he buys it too late still kite him around. IMO forces sf to get a lot done with those bkb charges. Also feel like a few manfighty heroes like Ursa, tb, slark, pa, wud just not give a fuck and fight u. Against ur squishy line ups I do agree it can melt people.

Its exactly as you said. Basically, SF is 'situational'. I'll say this though: he's incredibly versatile as a hero in what mid and late game options he goes. Swap Deso out for Skadi, maybe throw in a Silver Edge for further stats and initiation. MKB or Mjollnir for the magic procs, an SnY to run down anything aside from a quadrupedal, or maybe a Hurricane just to add extra mobility to run even those down. Want to make a caster SF? Go something crazy like Agh, Veil and Eblade for that extra magical oomph and auto attack like some deranged version of Mirana. Some heroes are more linear than others, but SF is very capable of making a very squiggly line. Y'know what I mean? I think he's better than ever because of how wild he can get. That's just me though. I'm the kind of player that looks at Sven and Luna and says, "Gee I sure do wish I could build anything other than what is currently the meta on them and still retain the same effectiveness."

Would only get mjolnir against illu heroes
Luna and sven is quite static, yes I agree, but remember luna diffusal can be a thing lmao

@Aimer aght is fucking best item on sf cuz more soul damage and stat

having experimented with it im pretty convinced its not the best item

sf = jugg, but shittier

in my experiences, sf with euls are good IFF you can net a kill with eul + ult combo everytime its done cooldown. if you cant get that, then it will cost you so much. eul give you good mana regen so you can always raze every single camp and finishes them quickly (dont ask me why my gpm with sf sucks, i aint a good farmer), and under a good hand, it help you to get your next big items. but against some tank ass shit like sven or lifestealer, sb to silver edge is the best initiation item. other than that, its all situational (bkb, mkb, bloodthorn, pike, butter, deadulus)

Eul is a tinker killer item
Can't think of other case where eul would be better than other items

i think whether or not to get aghs depends on your team. like if you are playing with an aghanims disruptor, its self-explainatory.