General DiscussionTraditional HotD carriers

idk Perhaps the meta will gravitate towards early pushes with stacking auras? Anything can happen tbh

^ damn, i hate that kind of doto

YE why did they change hotd?? Don't understand

The problem with HotD IMO is you can not complete it to Satanic. That +8 HP regen can make it up for lifesteal. (I mean there are not many heroes that rely on 15% lifesteal in teamfigts. Huskar and Troll are the only ones those come to mind.) It provides +6 all stats and +20 att speed, those things can compete with +20 damage and +5 armor. But that's it. You won't be getting Satanic.

They changed HotD because ancient stacking was too overpowered, now it's only good for supports and tanky offlanes.

would helm now be viable for spectre instead of vanguard?

For farming? Probably would be better than Vanguard. But would not be better if you are struggling in laning phase. Also, HotD can't be built into another item. You can still have an option if you choose Vanguard. Abyssal can come very handy, especially if enemy carry bothering you with his BKB. Overall, I don't see much of an advantage of Dominator for Spec.

SO BASICALLY THEY FUCKED TROLL AND HUSKAR.

I MEAN, ITS FUCKING ANNOYING THAT THEY REMOVED A CORE LIFE-STEAL ITEM AND DIDN'T GIVE ANY SATISFACTORY REPLACEMENT FOR IT. LIKE WHAT THE FUCK. ITS LIFESTEAL FOR GODS SAKE, NOT SOME EXPENDABLE DAMAGE ITEM.

Edit: Just checked huskar talents, he gets 15% lifesteal (at lvl 15 tho). So they just fucked troll :(

say hello to the casual morbid mask.

^better to just combine your ring of bassilus (don't make RoA then i guess, and go for echo instead) and mask into vlads then keeping a casual morbid mask. remember, hotd used to give useful armor and +20 damage too (new morbid mask gives +15)

sven got rekt really hard, not only do ancients spawn every 2 minutes, he's also not likely to build hotd to stack

rip sven

yeah i dont know. was thinking more if you still wanted satanic but didnt want to go MoM.

so youd just keep the mask until you completed satanic

yeah ur right abt the satanic

HotD core on luna? IDK, i never find the need for HotD in the early game, maybe because i just rush dragon lance+yasha and go and push immediately

It's going to become the new MoM and MoM will be the new HotD.

In other words; MoM will be overused and HotD will be untouched.

I don't think troll is that fucked, he now just has to rush satanic instead of putting it off for something like butterfly or bkb. It's just going to force troll into the jungle early and for longer until he has his satanic.

mom will not be overused that item is trash

junglers are fucked hard sven too anceitns clearers too

this is era of midd and heroes that dont do ancients like slark etc. ..

HotD is finally a Chen/Ench item.

Actually everyone can do ancients now. Storm and Veno can in example.

casual morbid mask into satanic. Satanic has +dmg now so it's really not that bad on agility heroes. The buildup still sucks cus 3k gold reaver but at least a morbid mask and mithril hammer are more useful than a 1200g recipie or whatever it was before. Luna, gyro, troll, sven will prob do this. Or vlads is an option, troll and sven could easily go vlads.

Oh and mask is a shit ton better. Does sven or troll really give a shit if they are silenced for 8 seconds? They pop ults, warcry/stun/whirling axes, pop mask and go ham, it wears off same time cds are up. And they both have +armor abilities with rage and warcry so the minus armor is nothing. You won't get blown the fuck up by nukes now.

^the silence from MoM won't be a problem for sven, but for troll, who needs to constantly toggle his Q in skirmishes, and make use of W's short cooldown, it will certainly be a problem.

So, after some thinking, I figure there are two paths (of almost similiar costs):

1. Ring of Aquila + casual morbid mask (into satanic later on)
2. Vladimir's offering (keep wraith band or skip it if you choose)

IMO option 1 would be more preferable. Do a comparison of benefits and judge for youself. Vlad's more useful for if you want to split push?

And slot issue shouldn't occur now, now that tp can be kept in backpack, so more incentive for option 1?

Put HotD on every hero I've picked so far aside from a mid TA and its worked out fantastic, even without the creep. But when I could get the Wolf, I just had it follow around our farming AM or ganking PA all game. I especially liked it on my CK Aghs support and I do suggest it go on your typical 1 per line up STR hero(unless they're like pos 1 or something). Drums is nice in the same inventory as well.

I should mention that the Wolf had like a 90% aura up time on our farming AM with his Blink farming; it is a super fast unit now.

Vlads best lifesteal item now.

yea dono what to build for luna now. skipped Helm. but went satanic late anyway.

Does Manta and BKB purge MoM buff? If not, maybe give that some consideration. As a quadrupedal type hero she has like the fast movement speed you can achieve and with Manta and MoM, it really spins out of control and the 100 extra attack speed doesn't hurt at all. As long as you get ult off before you click it and as long as using Manta or BKB doesn't purge it. Next query would be of the debuff it applies. Is that purged with Manta or BKB?

dont think luna needs MOM. naw she alr atacks fast and moves fast/ she doesnt hae the same issue that heroes like sven has. maybe gd on sniper tho.

There's no doubt about mom on LunA sven both broken

mom is imba
it only reduce you 5 armor which is nothing for luna sven etc
silence is not probem u stupid fucks

but why do u need it?

For supa fast hits ofc

lets just get it on every hero then kek since every1 benefits from super fast hits

I don't think the silence is a problem at all for troll. Axes are 12s cd on the melee one and much longer on the ranged one early. With the move speed on mask he can just run at you. 17% is more than an s&y remember and at level 15 he can get another 15 ms. It only lasts 8 seconds so if you need to switch into ranged form you can probably wait it out. Only issue would be fighting pike holders like a drow or sniper, you can't go ranged form to finish them off.

Crystal maiden benefits from extra hits since she has supar high BAT, so she gets alot out of it
Kappa

now just build casual morbid mask on the hero as that's gonna be good now. as you can go for satanic as dmg item its actually decent to build an early morbid mask on hotd carriers now. 

Dire Wolf going in melee isn't always good

MoM is actually kinda busted rn, ive seen fucking sf build it. Troll with a MoM is spooky af, especially cuz he is unkitable with fucking so much movespeed. Also ive been thinking of helm on lycan, how abt it. Dominate alpha wolf (to follow the lore Kappa)

Going in melee is fine if u run as fast as a lycan in ulti man. Its also really really good as a farming item, cuz the movespeed helps a lot. Vlads is dogshit on troll.

MoM + Mjollnir on Troll + the tanky tree = golden?

all traditional HotD carriers pretty much want lifesteal, and morbid mask is amazing now

1200 gold for 15% lifesteal and 15 fucking damage is way too good to pass up

I mean, a broadsword costs 1200 gold and gives you 18 damage, mask is the same price with 3 less damaeg

so yes guys, 3 damage = 15% lifesteal

balanced

Just go for Vlads, i used to build HotD on TROLL but now VLADS. Same for PA
more dmg and lifesteal for team!
Again you can dominate mid game with PA if you have vlads same for Troll

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2844572289 - troll

i think MoM was changed in 7.00? it silences you or something when you activate, does not it?

Dude troll needs way more farm than a pa and is way less active. Vlads is better on heroes who actually go with their team rather than rotate the jungle. MoM is the solution, tho @RIPDota is right morbid mask is gr8. Imo without backpack i wud say it kinda sux cuz no one really wants to carry around casual mask, but now u can backpack it so it sounds good to me. But MoM wud increase ur farm by so much.

Ye MoM now gives 100 attack speed and 17% ms, but removes 5 armor and silences u. Lasts 8 seconds and costs 100 g more (1900 g)

Level 10: +6 Strength OR 10 Agility
Level 15: +15 Movement Speed OR +6 Armor
Level 20: +300 Health OR +40 Damage
Level 25: -7s Whirling Axes Cooldown OR +20% Magic Resistance

I think he would have no trouble with a MoM if he went the tanky route. In fact, doesn't he start off with like 10 armor? Pick up Phase and Yasha as well as an active MoM and I see no ability to out run this maniac, personally.

Has 10 armor in melee form only but troll rlly is melee most of the time. I dont even think u need to go the tanky route, cuz 6 strength is like 120 hp only. I wud buy sny after it just for hp lol. Then bkb skadi/butter/crits/mkb. With 40 dmg talent maybe a skadi cud be gucci cuz u attack insanely fast and r now easily tanky enough to handle it. Plus the slow plus ur speed = ultimate kite.

And honestly his level 15 talent can just go to the armor and cancel out the worst of the debuff on its own. I can't see him needing an extra 15 ms if he has an SnY, MoM and his natural like 40 extra from maxing Q on top of Phase.

I almost forgot that MoM and Skadi now work together. I mean, they do, right?

Lol, guys armor was NEVER a problem on troll. He could single handedly manfight snowballing PA's with max crits and God's strength Sven's on his own. He is the ultimate man-fighter.

No, the real problem with MoM on troll is the silence. I'm sorry Dire Wolf, I can't agree with you. I've smurfed enough with troll on higher skill brackets to understand the importance of his ranged/melee toggle. Together with the ranged axes slow, it is absolutely essential to finish off kills at many times. Higher move speeds just don't cut it. Also, if you're getting MoM for farming purposes, there are better items, although I can see how the move-speed can speed up farming the now larger map. That certainly can make a case for MoM, but considering overall costs & benefits, going yasha-based items is better IMO for speed.

I think the best solution is casual morbid mask + Ring of aquila. Later on upgrade to satanic.