idk i always figured dps is useful for fighting and farming, wheras hp is only useful for fighting
so i always went dps
maybe ill pick up the stats on ls or jug hp and see how it goes
Jugg is the one I'm most certain about. At I-league out of 12 games Jugg went hp talent 11 times and the one where he didn't was a game where Aggressif went bfury and just farmed. You do all your damage in fights with spin/slash so +damage does barely anything for you in fights and on a really squishy hero like Jugg +175 hp saves you a lot.
The ones where I'd consider going +damage are void and AM. AM you dodge fights anyway so you don't need hp as much. But Miracle goes for +hp every time I've seen him play and it does make up for the lost stat points from 6.88. Void is because you have chrono you shouldn't be taking much incoming damage and your natural damage is really shit so some extra attack speed goes a long way.
the thing is those hp talents are like half a nuke. They just never seem that worth it to me.
Problem with those +HP talents is that it feels like it's not enough. Think about it, +20 dmg is like having a claymore (1400g) while 150HP is like a little bit over half of what a vitality booster (1100g) offers. Those need to get buffed to be more relevant.
As a side not, I think at lvl 10 on void you get the +7 strength, not +15 attack speed since void is kinda squishy and having little hp makes his 1st skill not that useful (can't dodge nukes if you die).
Is claymore going to win you a teamfight when you are level 10? No pretty much never, 175 hp might though if you have to be nuked one more time to die or you manage to escape on a sliver of hp. It's like having a free raindrop charge at the start of every fight. Don't get me wrong if you are just hitting creeps +damage is superior but you shouldn't be doing that in the current meta.
^ I'm not saying the +HP is bad, it just feels like you're getting ripped off. You exchange something more valuable for something less valuable simply because you need that other thing more at that certain point in time.
the comparisons of the value of the talents have been missing one particular aspect. The future item paths of most carries listed above are dedicated to damage items, so the shadow price of health boost from a talent is more valuable in relative terms than damage output. That is why top players go HP more often.
If you're playing 9v1 you'd notice that damage is very important for solo kills. You get hp from stats anyways.
You also farm faster, especially if you're mid you want the damage
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A lot of melee cores have a talent choice between +hp and +damage (or attack speed) at level 10. For example:
Jugg: +175 hp, +20 damage
AM: +150 hp, +20 damage
PA: +150 hp, +15 damage
Troll: +140 hp, +10 damage/+10 atk speed
Void: +140 hp, +15 atk speed
Lifestealer: +100hp/+5 attackspeed/+5 damage/+5int, +15 atk speed
I highly recommend going for hp talents if you are fighting and going for dps talents if you are farming. Note that in most cases you should be contributing to fights early on as these heroes. This means you should go hp talent especially on Jugg/LS/PA.