General DiscussionLATE GAME VIPER BUILDS.

Anything
you lost by then

Skadiiiiii

Mjonril, Manta / Butterfly, (consumed) Moon Shard, BoT, Skadi, and Bloodthorne / MKB.

mjol, butterfly, satanic, deadelas, pike, BoT. Possibly subbing bkb in if you need it.

There is no lategame
If u get there u can buy practically every item a regular carry wud build, im not gonna name them all

Viper shouldn't take a game past 40 minutes. And that is already pushing it. Short of getting rapier, he simply is unable to balance survivability and reliable damage output.
But if you want to be prepared, try skadi butterfly pike bloodthorne heart. You (should) deal respectable enough damage for them to notice you, but you're also tanky at the same time. Maybe heart for deso if you need to pack even just a bit more punch.

I will NOT take any comment saying Viper should not take the game 40 minutes or more. You are assuming Viper is the only hero in the team and the entire operation is up to him. What if I have Anti-Mage and Troll Warlord as teammates? The thing about Viper is not to end the game quickly, but to keep the mid game in your control so that your carry get fat while the enemy carry get ganked.

Granted, I tend to reach my peak as Viper in the mid game where it is easy to get something like 10/3 kills/deaths. In the late game, this figure declines and I usually get carried by teammates. My average game duration for Viper is just about 42 minutes. Viper is only effective in pick-off and skirmishes. He is not good in team fight.

In late game, Aghanim Scepter is good, especially if you want the +80 DPS talent. There is really no point in buying this in mid game as a Pike is better for stats. This item can screw over most right-clickers even if they buy BKB, but not if they have Linken. Other than that, MKB is necessary to disable channeling and boost your damage. If you can actually stay relevant in the late game, then buy Mjionir to push faster. Finally, Butterfly or Heart for tankiness. I hope you already have Silver Edge at this point, because 50% damage reduction on any 6-slotted damage dealer is huge.

All in all, items don't matter that much. You are carry. Do what carry do. Just be aware of what you can do. I know it can be hard to accept you were ganking like crazy in mid game and now you have to sit behind the hard carry, but that is Dota 2. Everyone has a role to play, and the moment to shine.

In late game, Aghanim Scepter is good, especially if you want the +80 DPS talent. There is really no point in buying this in mid game as a Pike is better for stats. This item can screw over most right-clickers even if they buy BKB, but not if they have Linken. Other than that, MKB is necessary to disable channeling and boost your damage. If you can actually stay relevant in the late game, then buy Mjionir to push faster. Finally, Butterfly or Heart for tankiness. I hope you already have Silver Edge at this point, because 50% damage reduction on any 6-slotted damage dealer is huge.

AGHS IN THE LATEGAME WITH DPS TALENT HAHAHAHA
MKB TO DISABLE CHANNELING LMAO
wtf did I just read

obv u have teammates but viper is a pos 2, and when ur pos 2 is kinda anus in the lategame, ur team is still at a disadvantage.
its rlly not that hard to understand.
I'm pretty sure I haven't won a viper game past 35 min.

you read 3k logic

Im fucking sub 1k and im not that autistic

If you have enough damage dealers on your team, tank them up.

Build Pipe, (may be even Glimmer if enemy has loads of magic so their spells tickle your team instead of murder them), Crimson Guard, AC, Greaves.

Build auras. Your E already makes you resist magic, but Pipe is for Spell Block AND your entire team.

Have you ever fought a Storm when you have a pipe?

He relies so heavy on his spells that Pipe literally makes him a large neutral creep.

Have you ever fought a Storm when you have a pipe?
He relies so heavy on his spells that Pipe literally makes him a large neutral creep.

True, but Dota is 5 v 5 not 1 v 1

And Pipe is a team item.

going for the 80 DPS talent instead of 20 armor is a reportable offense.

the problem with it is that you now don't do any damage. That's where I've had my problems with viper, is when I go too tanky and end up not being able to deal damage. I think idealy your going hybrid damage and survivability items, so things like bfly and satanic, that way your tanky and still scale late.

^this
Making ur team live but having an entire pos 2 worth of dmg missing just means ur team will lose teamfights slower

idk what kind of situation makes you take dps talent instead of armor

If you have a skadi and the 20 armor talent, you're tanky as all fuck. I am talking about DK tankiness levels, even more.

Which means you can have:

Blood Thorn
Skadi
Tread/Phase/Travels
Pike
+Whatever you need, BKB or Butterfly

With this armor talent it means you no longer need to build AC lategame.

Seriously, Viper is not nearly as slot starved as people would think. Sure, he can't build all damage like TA but that doesn't mean he doesn't have a slot for a damage item.

Don't skadi get ac and crush towers. Nethertoxin works on towers so viper actually does a lot of right click damage late. You need mjollnir to get there so end game build should be most likely mjollnir, ac, butterfly, pike, mkb, bloodthorn. Boots in backpack consume moon shard. Skadi would only be to counter right clickers through bkbs. Mkb can be swapped for Daedalus but the mini stun for interrupting is too good sometimes. You get silver edge if your team needs mute for like bristle.

I think ac is a much worse pickup because of the 20 armour talent. I would much rather have that slot for a damage item or another survivability mechanism. Ac is just redundant.

once u have that much armor its better to buy hp and evasion rather than more armor

You aren't buying ac for defense but for attack speed and -armor for towers. I guess you could go deso but attack speed helps your nethertoxin a ton.

u already have mjollnir attack speed, and butterfly makes ur dmg good as well.
thing is u shudnt commit to ac just to melt towers when u already siege well, u shud diversify ur portfolio.
ac isn't the worst tho, I just think its more situational than core

Hi, I see your new here but sorry fellow player, but you will never get proper information in this forum. Because its full of people with life problems and can't deal with them and starts to spam the forum to feel good about themselves and also their 1000 mmr and double down users. If I were you I would move to "DOTADEV" that's where admins of the game and high mmr players with out of this world skills answer all your gaming questions in dota 2. You better leave now and close this site or everyone who is active in this forum will start to give you wrong answers and the other random 1000 mmrs playing with bots will go crazy and starts to spam randomely and trust me your gonna like them very much. http://dev.dota2.com/

And also if its not helping you then try the Steam Forum {[http://steamcommunity.com/app/570/discussions/ ]} about Dota 2. No one dares to spam or flame there if they want to get instant 2 weeks ban and if they do it again 1 month and again 3 months and then again then they have no choice but to perma-ban them. but you need to unlock a privilage to post to prevent spammers like that person named Jack and that person who thinks he/she is an animal Dog. and those people moved here so they can spam here.

I also recommend the "Dota 2 Animo App" and chat with 3000-8000 mmr players if both of the following forums are not helpful and the community there are nice people.

Thank you for your time.
and btw don't pay attention to them, they're crazy and you know for attention.

if you cannot find your perfect forum then you don't need one because you are smarter than a forum.

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damage is what viper needs well its complicated on what type your enemies are

edit: there's something else I need to say on what type of item does viper needs which fits perfect on the meta but I will just say 1 item for you just because I'm hiding this from them to prevent skill thief. a butterfly and sny the rest I cannot say.

Lamao the comments in this thread.

I thought that was a camel. it was a llmao (llama).

when you can't tell if the giant comment is diox because it's something diox would say but the english is too good.

also diox is retarded and is the exact person he is describing so it's probably best to disregard him.

they only said I'm a retard because their being called retarded in the steam forum for spamming them bad post that doesn't make any sence which lead them to their ban.

and cannot afford 5 dollar to spam back in the forum.

This is back to regular diox english

I think this is diox trying to tell us how he ended up with us on dotabuff, except he only speaks blame teammates

Its just fun to see retards shitposting while not being banned by valve which valve probably gave it to elo that's why they can't do anything about this. this forum is full of retards because its not owned by valve.

full of retards

yeah the one you brain washed and moved to a different secret forum.

I will not join with your occult club of retardism.

Diox if you go this will just become an occult club, because you'll be taking all the retardism with you

R.I.P English.

Let me write 2 ways to play viper in SAFE LANE:

1. As a Right Click Carry
2. As a Tanker

Right Click Carry

Early Game
- Phase Boots, Manta, Aquila, Drops
- The whole idea is with Viper's very strong lane control and low maintenance required from support, you'll have huge level advantages comparable to the mid heroes since you can manage to run a 2-1-2 or a position 4 jungler.
- Why Phase Boots? It provides you better lane control with the chase potential and extra damage. You'll be a little tanky than others because of 3rd skill and with your 2nd skill, you can kill int and AGI heroes in about 4 right clicks. With another disabler, you can kill high HP STR heroes.
- Why Midas? He lacks flash farm ability. You need to cash in his lane dominance and the best way to do it is through Midas.

Mid Game
- Dragon Lance, Yasha, Pike/Maelstrom
- Dragon Lance is enough tankiness. From here on out, Viper should be built with focus on Attack Speed. A casual Yasha gives a lot of DPS - depending on enemy lineup, this could be upgraded to Manta. The decision between going for Pike/Maelstrom depends on the situation. Generally, the former is suitable for defensive purposes or better teamfight positioning while the latter gives you extra DPS.

Late Game
- Mjolnir, Agh's Scepter, Butterfly/AC, Shard
- Mjolnir addresses viper's lack of AOE skill while granting extra Attack Speed. Level up +16 AGI talent and you'll be a very strong right clicker in the late game.
- I have become an advocate of building Aghs (replace Aquila). The extra ult range and being able to cast it multiple times in long drawn out fights has been very underrated but very strong.
- and yes, so far, I have always taken +armor over viper strike dps.
- i almost always choose +75 range as well but poison affects buildings definitely has its place

Summary
The critical path of Viper cores is during mid game. If your early game dominance doesn't lead you to win mid game clashes or at least keep your levels up, then this allows enemy cores to catch up to your levels. And this becomes the part where people say that Viper is useless after the laning phase.