axe's the only real reason i knew already for when to buy euls.
but i was looking through Lion item winrates, and the only common Lion item that beats Aether Lens is Eul's. So it must be really good.
Lion already has an instant disable in hex, so I do not see it as being particularly great or necessary on him. If you pick Lich, however, it is a completely different story.
You can also use eul as Ancient Apparition.
Use your first skill on the enemy and then eul, he will be stunned and your cores can easily kill him
Just use Youtube lol, why you trynna waste our time?
I'm thinking about Lion in particular though. Cause it's apparently the best Lion extension item. Either that, or it is only bought when far ahead; but it's bought in a large amount of games (more often than Glimmer Cape), so that doesn't really make much sense.
From what I see in guides, it seems to be bought against deadly-to-Lion projectiles (Clinkz arrows, WK's stun, etc.) and Silences. So it's most used as self-cast apparently.
Who's that rich to buy euls for lion? You start with boots, force staff and then if you want to survive attacks from heroes like clinkz/wk that you mentioned above, buy ghost sceptre. Anyway, you'll never have enough gold to buy such stuff...you either buy blink and start the initiation or stay behind your cores and wait for their initiation
The reason euls has high winrate for lion is the same an octarine core has for CM. It is a luxury item that you only really get if you are winning pretty hard and were looking for the next support item to buy. It is pretty low in the priority department. It does not mean that you win by getting euls, but you get euls if you are winning.
if that were true, Eul's wouldn't be a commonly bought Lion item. I just bought it this game and it felt really good having 3 disables instead of 2 (used my skills to ruin duel and eul to ruin echo slam last game)
If you looked at the stats instead of talking shit, you would see that Euls on Lion is the equivalent of Force Staff on CM, not Octarine Core.
Buy it for a cheap dispel, or if you need to disable someone like and enemy void when they chrono.
Its always good item for lion couse of MS bonus,Potato have a blue star and would use eul on chrono void instead of stun and hex him gg wp.
Im not high mmr player but i can say few things about Lion because i spammed that hero months ago.
1. you need Dagger more than anything
2. you can take euls and you can combine that with first and second spell.. euls (2 seconds) + first spell (2 seconds) + hex ( 4 seconds ) stun/lock down.. excellent combo
3. from luxury items count on scepter first than other stuff bcs you can farm with that shit fast and its low cooldown
4. always have mango with you after 10 minutes bcs spells are high on mana
5. in teamfight stay behind trees or from enemys vision and try to burst first than go for first/second spell
It's not optimal to spend gold on eul's just for Void, but you can save your stun and hex for after chrono wears off so you can counter with your disables and have your allies follow up.
When u cast stun under euls it has 0 sec delay b4 enemy would be stuned.
So u can use it to catch storm, dispel shield and catch ember.
But most of the time dagger would be a better decisson, coz u have a nature hex.
i never know when to get Euls TBH. its hard to make that decision. i don't think u get it just cuz of a dispel or a silence (although in those situations ud seriously consider getting euls). but its those other times where euls might be good despite no real reason to dispel anything... but u have to choose wisely over bette items like blink or forestaff or glimmer.
yea id consider getting euls if there's an axe thats really fucking shit up.
don't think you'd get it for a void.
it can also be very valuable if that extra few seconds in a TF disrupts the enemy momentum a lot.
pretty sure Eul's is most often bought as a 3rd item on Lion, after Aether Lens and Blink. And it's not that unreasonable to choose Eul over Glimmer or Force Staff.
EUL = buy yourself some time (used defesively), or take someone out for 2 secs (can be used in a way to save a teammate, or stop an important enemy core from initiating), or cancel tp.
glimmer / force IMO is better overall if u need something to use defensively, and u can save your teammates more reliably as well. usually that's more than enough
unfortunately neither of them is a reliable self-save (if you glimmer or force away you still get damaged or stunned if they have vision) or a dispel.
Underwhelming item. Pretty much never get it. It's currently super situational (vs Axe as someone mentioned). It costs too much gold for a support. In the current patch, only cores buy it. It's currently bought only on QoP, Invoker, Storm (vs silences), Lina (as setup, but less & less, people opt for Shadow Blade), Bloodcyka (to stop tps & MS) & that's pretty much it. In 90% of the games you would rather get Force/Glimmer/Ghost Scepter on a support or if you're super rich Rod of Atos.
i get it you dont want to acknowledge that eul is one of best support items, fair enough
>normal skill
^I can tell you that my MMR is higher than yours. It's not my main & even here it was 3.8k not long time ago, but due to shit behavior score (intentional feeders in half of the games), I dropped by more than 1k MMR. Yeah, eul is so great on supports, that's why no one buys it nowadays. It was nerfed really hard. I don't see why would you get it over Atos in like 90% of games. Atos has a better build up, stats & also gives u lockdown. It's a decent item, was even broken at one point, but currently, there are better items.
EDIT: I forgot about Shaker, DP, Jakiro, but I guess that's it.
If you're seriously asking about Eul on Lion, you won't get out of 3.2k anytime soon. In 90% of games, you will never get it (even if in all of those games u will get 6 slotted). Better items -> Atos, Blink, Force, Glimmer, Ghost, Lotus Orb, Scepter. Nerf to cast range & buffs to other items, pretty much killed the item.
Anyway who buys eul for a hero who got like 5 seconds stun skills? Blink, stun, ult
You've successfully killed the enemy
if enemy has true sight, there is no better defensive (in teamfight) item for lion than an euls.
iirc i won a game-winning fight on rubick just coz i eul'd myself to dispel an orchid and buy time for our team to turn the fight.
Euls is just too expensive for supports in majority of games. Also diffusal is really strong so defensive euls is not really going to be effective in most games, unless you believe you are going to get an euls before the enemy carry gets his diffusal, which is kind of delusional. If you are important to take down, you get diffu'd, if not, they just wait. It can be a great item on some heroes, but you know what can also be great? Picking heroes that have synergy so that you don't have to buy an euls. Euls is great on jakiro because it lets you setup your spells. You know what else is great with jakiro? Any slow or stun. Any additional CC helps this hero way more than an euls would.
Oh and if you are buying Euls on jakiro instead of atos, you live in 2016.
while they wait, my team wins the teamfight
Diffusal is in most cases a rather weak damage item (especially weak for siege), so forcing the enemy carry to go for a sub-optimal diffusal blade build might be game-winning on it's own.
Jesus christ, you aren't going to force a carry to build diffusal just to counter your euls, they are going to build it because it is actually a great item. How the hell is it a bad damage item? What else can you possibly get on an agi carry that will give you as much utility and damage as diffusal? How is 60 dmg and 2 attack speed on a 3k gold item inefficient in any sort of way? Not to mention other stats and utility with mana burn and purge.
And you don't get a diffusal to siege, you get it so you can kill people before you siege.
And no, when I said they'll wait, I didn't mean they will afk for two seconds until you are dropped from the air, I mean that they will IGNORE YOU and go on other targets.
Well as a disruptive squishy support are obviously a number 1 priority target, shifting focus so you can use your spells when you come down is highly advantageous to you.
I know you don't buy diffusal to siege, so there are a lot of carries who do not like buying diffusal blades (basically anyone who has other core items such as PA, Slark, Clinkz or basically any other crit/siege hero).
They get those items anyways because necro is on the enemy team in about half the games, ghost scepters are pretty popular too.
doesn't really change the fact that it's a sub-optimal item for many heroes, the only justifiable reason to buy a diffusal is to dispel something (or i guess slow down) which is not necessarily needed every game.
So Enemy carry doesn't have diffusal blade & enemy has magic damage & true sight-> buy euls scepter instead of glimmer/ghost
"Enemy has true sight" is a blanket statement unless there are slardar or bounty in the game. They won't always have true sight no matter what, and you can deward sentries if that is the source of true sight.
Also glimmer is much better against necro, veno and shaker, who are really popular right now. It can negate a good chunk of their damage.
euls isnt usable on allies while glimmer is, so thats the main 'pro' of glimmer. but euls is usable on enemies, the items fill a different niches.
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when to get?