you already have 8, better not. Behaviour score will come back to haunt you hehe.
I don't want you to take this the wrong way. Me and every other pro in the game would agree with you because QE is obviously how everyone plays now. Even MP who ONLY used to play QW before. I just listed reasons QW is better, I didn't point out things which make QE better so this looks a bit skewed. But instead of 20 min aghs, QW will have 26 mins aghs in a normal game, after Atos, which seems more than fine to me. (Aghs is what brings the two builds together, right?) I just happen to love the 'style' QW plays in. Farming, and pushing to carry the game is pos 1 playstyle while I'm old school like that when I want pos 2 to dictate plays right from the outset.
To further clarify my own personal opinion, I'd say QW provides more utility to the game than a QE, but because of the current state of things it has fallen out of favour. I hope to see buffs to QW in the future.
mid is not pos 1, pos 1 is your safelane carry @into the window of soul
if you are not sure about that the easiest way to check this is going to liquipedia and taking a pro dota team, for example team liquid
miracle is their mid player and matu their safelane carry, matu is pos1 and miracle pos2
it depends on the priority of farm the player/hero should get
also I like qw invoker because of the higher ganking potential, I feel like while maxing exort I turn into a farming machine that occasinally casts a sunstrike
maybe, but i'll wait for that time to come back again, herr goering. with qe the only kills i'll get are sunstrikes (uncertain). The occasional meteor (uncertain to roll). Apart from that, if someone walks into my range maybe i can right click snap him to death. But that rarely happens until you have blink for initiation.
@zemo San
Look at how liquid plays before u comment
Matu just picks a necrophos or venomancer and runs around making space, and what does miracle do?
Usually he plays more farming heavy like invoker or ta or whatever it is
Same with eg (sumail farms, artour makes space)
And same with other teams as well
It's just the way the game has evolved
This isn't all the time, in cases where liquid runs am they'll put miracle on it, but again miracle ends up playing the POS 1 hero most often. There r a couple heroes in the safelane like the and am that need space for them in which case the POS 1 player will play it, but otherwise mid is pos 1.
Also qe invoker isn't that weak, he lanes well after a couple of levels, alacrity and cold snap into sunstrike is actually pretty good
I can often get a 16-18 min aghs and then become useful.
>rightclick damage
>qw
if u want to use emp then just go like 4-0-4 into max wex and quas, i think sumail did it ocassionally
QW>E the meta that is going right now with midas 25-30min jungle farm absolutelly useless :D QW ALL THE WAY :D
@feels:
mid still isn't pos 1
do you really think that the whole site of liquipedia is written wrong or sth?
if you need another example, take team secret
here is the link:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Team_Secret
midOne is pos 2, constantly playing mid
lets go navi:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Natus_Vincere/Natus_Vincere
crystallize is pos 1, dendi is pos 2
your argument about miracle taking up more farm in some games doesn't really make him a pos 1 player, matu is the pos 1, miracle is the pos 2
if miracle picks a jugger on the other hand in this game he will be the pos 1 and matu the pos 2 that game, that means miracle goes safe and matu mid:
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3372726385
This isn't something I came up with its how the positions are defined...
extra example the other finalist of this year TI:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/Newbee
Moogy pos 1 playing safelane, Sccc pos 2 playing mid
a question to practice:
Virtus Pro, ramzes and Noone, which one is the pos 1/pos 2?
@Feels
with your Invoker winrate and Item timings, you are the one people would like to listen too.
@feelsbadman:
I agree that is also the reason why we have a lot of teams interchanging between their safe and mid roles like for the mentioned liquid
kinda oftopic but there is a scene of matu talking about miracle not wanting to play mid against noone
yeah here lol(last 30 secs)
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/5ottd5/miracle_cries_for_safelane_matumabaman/
with your Invoker winrate and Item timings, you are the one people would like to listen too.
im deadass not even talking abt invoker smh
fucking blind
all i have left to say is that when u have a necrophos or venomancer or ursa or troll or ls or mk or other less farming heavy safelaner as opposed to invoker or ta or sf or storm or a variety of farming intensive mids u will see that the mid gets farming priority over the safelaner
the safelaner ends up making space for the mid to farm
with this farm the midlaner will try to take over the mid game and snowball a victory
idek how else to explain this, just look at how many times the supports will leave the safelaner alone to help in the mid trilane war.
the exception to this is high farming intensity safelaners like sven, tb, am, or ones that need babysitting badly like morphling, spectre, etc
The way the game is now, I think mid IS the new safelane. 20 or so more CS at 10 minutes at 10 minutes compared to safelane, better nearby jungle camps. Better access to shrines as well. Of course, there will be tempo controlling mids since of course the lane permits so. But saying that mid now is exclusive only to tempo control is very disputable. Also, this is Dota we're talking about. It's no League where positions are set in unetchable stone
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1. A mid should be a tempo controlling hero - Making the plays, leading the team, dominating the map, dictating when, what fights are to be taken. A QE just doesn't cut it in that regard. He's just abysmal pre 25 mins, just farming the jungle, counting on the offlaner and support to make the plays. An offlaner has high levels, but little farm. Imagine a mid with similar levels and more farm from 1v1 laning.
2. Self sufficient laner - Very hard to gank and demolishes traditional QE counters like Tinker, Sniper etc. What you will lose in the last hit battle, you will gain on those emp landings where the mid is just straight out of mana, has half health (due to snap and right click damage) and has to ferry regen or head back to base. Every hero in the game needs mana, mids in laning more so. What's more, the QE invoker is often mana starved in lane. A QW has all he ever needs.
3. Legendary initiation - A tornado emp ice wall/cold snap wins you a teamfight if the placement is correct. Wait six more seconds and you have deafening blast or alacrity to follow through. In the same way, ganks are almost always successful. QW can solo kill himself, but if there is another person with you, the enemy has zero chance of living. The general idea is that if the tornado connects, he's dead. Coupled with the ability to literally take fights at any moment from a considerable distance (Wex will be high obviously).
4. 15 min rod of atos is actually insane - We skip midas, and farm heroes for XP. Orchid is hardly as powerful as it once was, atos is cheaper. Once atos duration ends you have a cold snap/ice wall additionally to lock down someone even further.
5. People listen to you - Instead of jungling and splitpushing, we make plays and win morale boosting teamfights (winning teamfights in my bracket just gives my team incredible confidence, leading to better plays from them). You're like some field marshal, deciding who to go upon and when. The rest of the team just has to watch the flanks. A team is more likely to listen to an on-field marshal than an arrogant arse shouting commands from the jungle and sunstriking to killsteal.
6. A QW Invoker is still a complete Invoker at lvl 25 - So it's not like you don't go Aghanims after Atos, and can't do all the 4 spell combos that deal damage too. You're still a decent tower pusher with alacrity even without points in exort. Once exort points are up you have your entire kit accessible, and can pull off all the pianist plays possible.
Thoughts? Opinions? Contradictions? Hit me up!