the way to thinkj about item decisions and similar stuff like ur question is just that it depends on the game. if u have a lot of farm and can afford the extra 1k cost and u dont need damage at all u can buy hex. its not as simple as 1 item is better than another any time on any hero or whatever just buy what u feel is best for the game, and u can only learn stuff like this by playing
Yeah, I agree with you completely, it does depend on the game, that's why my example was ursa getting nullifier against necro and tb, two heroes with spell saves.
I think that ursa should've got a hex, I think it was a serious misplay to get nullifier that game, but they were starting to lose anyways so their prospects for lategame weren't that great anyways and it was likely a last ditch effort to try to lock someone down since both abyssal and hex were too far away gold wise.
As I said, yeah, if you can layer it with orchid it is a soft doom, so it can be good, and yeah +damage is great on right click carries, but I just think it's easy to mess this up, because nullifier's hardly a disable for some heroes, where hex is absolutely a disable for most.
Hex and nullifier are not really competing in a lot of ways since they provide vastly different stats and utility, but you can realistically buy one of them one one hero most games - they are competing for your gold and item slot. Maybe AW might go for something crazy like bthorn + nullifier + hex to fuck people but he's kind of an extreme example.
I just feel like if I played a right click carry that needed more damage to kill off targets, I'd get the nullifier for sure, especially if my team has a sufficient amount of hard lockdown. If we don't, I guess if they are kinda squishy but have ways to fuck with the nullifier, I just go hex instead.
Obviously this all depends on many specifics of the game, as you said, but it looks like most people just want to try nullifier because it is a new item, without realizing how bad it is against spell saves.
it can be almost useless but it can also be extremely good. almost lost this game cause sudden orchid+nullifier on me and noone was ready for it https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3556872706
^ah yeah that's an example of how to pull it off well, I guess
silence + nullifier = soft doom and if your team is behind you won't be able to deal with it without teammate saves
btw I like how you didn't even go BKB that game, you instead just tanked up to the point where AW can't reliably kill you, and if you tank up to survive the burst you have sunder afterwards, I guess that's a serious weakness of dumping so much net worth into two items that kind of depend on burst to be really effective, not saying AW had much else that he could've done, tho, it is still a fuckton of right click damage anyways and true strike against butterfly tb is kinda mandatory unless the enemy has a team of heavy nukers which they absolutely didn't, if he goes on you TA can kill his glass canon ass
He probably had silences on his team and didn’t want tb to purge them with manta or bkb, and didn’t want tb to pike away
this was a pro match @ dotapit, he did have a silence on his team, in QoP's bloodthorn
I am not saying that the item is bad or that it is even bad in that situation, but if you have trouble killing terrorblade just hitting him, you want to make him stop hitting you, why the fuck should terrorblade care if you nullify + bthorn him if he can still freely hit you? that's one thing low mmr people fuck up when they gank terrorblade, they throw stuns and silences on him early when the reality is that you want to beat him up as much as possible, and THEN use them to prevent a disaster.
Granted though if you get a jump on him with two heroes while his team is away you may stand a chance, but that's not how that game went at all, it was ursa qop against magnus necro terrorblade and it was a 5v5 party all day long, there was no way they could've won that in the lategame.
null is godly vs necro if you can combine it with a silence
necro with ghost scepter + shroud is fucked if he pops shroud first, if he pops ghost scepter first and you use the nullifier to purge it, he still has shroud
dont' forget you also get +65 damage with the nullifier and tankiness.
a lot of the mana/intelligence of the hex is often wasted if the discussion is about carries.
I would almost always choose Hex, but not for the sake of it, there are reasons to go Hex.
Primary one is it cannot be dispelled.
Like, I play solo queue. I have no one to rely on, just me.
If I have 2 items, one which gives damage, but can be countered by, say, Lotus from a teammate and one, which doesn't give damage, but gives a disable, which in no way can be removed, I'd almost always choose the latter.
I don't care about that damage. I need to be sure I have the target disabled 100%, regardless of what anyone in the game does.
Exception would be the case, where I somehow really need damage. Lots of damage. They are rare though.
Reliability > damage for me.
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So I have seen pros get nullifier and I am often really confused by this because people usually have both item and spell saves. Ursa getting a nullifier against terrorblade and necro seems dumb if he could have hex which would actually stop them from getting their abilities off, not just items.
Now, it's true, nullifier has more uptime and you can argue it is better for hit and run approach to fights, especially if the enemy doesn't have spell saves on their hero and you can single them out. It also costs less, gives you a purge which is suddenly something that's pretty expensive since diffusal does not provide, provides damage and armor to a right click hero, which is often what you'd prefer over stats from hex (unless you're OD or something). However, if you're buying it against ghost scepters or bkbs, how is blink hex not better? More often than not people use ghost scepter when you go on them and they pop it to survive, blink hex is instant initiation, it really counters both items and abilities and is undispellable now.
More importantly, a hexed unit also can't attack and is really slow anyways (if you'd try to make an argument that the nullifier slow is good, so is hex'). Technically if you're hit by a nullifier but you already got all the important stuff off, you can still fight people a lot of the time (unless you're melee and easily kitable in which case I guess you're fucked) but hex would fuck anyone. Of course the duration is longer on the nullifier but it's really a soft disable, and should be seen as much. It's literally an orchid for items, if you have an ability that can purge it, you're good to go, just like you'd purge orchid with an item.
I feel like the item is fairly underwhelming on its own - if you either have no way to actually silence people or it is really easy to dispel by teammates - lotus orb was seen as being nerfed to the ground by the hex change, but it now counters nullifier IF it is not cast on your hero, as the nullifier active is removable by both weak and strong dispels. You can basically "soft doom" someone for 5 seconds with orchid + nullifier and this sounds amazing until you realize an ally can lotus orb BOTH THINGS OFF, and if people build strategies around this, lotus orbs will become more prevalent again.
Am I wrong in thinking that hex is a generally more useful item? Obviously on heroes that really like +damage nullifier will be good but hex looks really good now despite being a mostly +int item.
I am pretty sure nullifier is great on heroes who can wreck you in few hits like PA, she doesn't need a hex because the damage is way too good for her and if she can keep hitting a target that primarily has item saves they are done for, also since she does not build blink her jumping on targets is easily telegraphed so she does need a dispel once people try to save their lives with a ghost scepter.