For me the deny xp change was the most annoying. Every time I see a ranged creep denied by my enemy I die a little bit inside knowing that it got pretty much wasted. Too much negative reinforcement for me to care about getting spending more time here.
I quitted 3 -4 months ago basically because of patch 7.00 + toxic community + unfair MMR system and no way to punish effectively leavers and trolls in the game.
I have played this game for more than 10 years since dota 1, but for me was time to retire. Dota right now is a game thats just makes you angry, theres no fun anymore. Be paired with players with 200h -500 hours in game is just ridiculous. I'm too old to deal with all this shit.
It's more like 3 out of 5 positions in dota is the most unfun shit ever. A game where advantage is based on gold that you get from farm but only 2 positions get to farm?
Also some heroes make certain supports the most worthless shit ever. Not to mention the right play is to first pick a support and then countered by some last pick bullshit core.
Game is just unfun if you don't get to play cores
also last picking bullshit heroes is the most dumbest shit to play against its pretty sad that a last pick is what wins you the game at the high level.
Dota 2's been around for like 5 years, you can't expect the playerbase to still be growing, especially something as beginner unfriendly as Dota. Just imagine when you first started playing Dota, now look at how many new heroes and items they've introduced since then.
I was in a cyber then I heard a guy talking bout how the game is just frustrating for no reason
You have to buy wards carry dust zone endure flame protect your cores while farming items predict movements stack pull care enemy Invis care ursa rosh your midlaner is bad so you have to make sure he doesn't feed his ass off but your safelaner whines cuz he needs you have to ward deep while not feeding all this dumbass shit all this suffering just for one fucking +25
Its not the same thing for cores tho you just hit the little guys then hit the big guys then hit the buildings actually that simple
But you can't pick core every game so game is less fun than it should be
Which is why I play it every two or three weeks
One of the biggest reasons for the fall in player base are the huge and frequent changes we have seen in the past year.
7.00 speaks for itself, there is no need to explain how much it brought and took away from the game.
7.07 is another example, and the three new heroes we saw introduced to the game are incredibly unique in what they bring.
These patches and those between them have been hugely balanced, making almost every single hero in the game viable or strong in atleast a few scenarios. That makes it difficult to maintain a good winrate, due to most players having a small hero pool and being unable to ban or counterpick even in pubs.
Besides that, the Dota Pro Circuit, changes to Ranked System, Matchmaking changes, introduction of dozens of new mechanics, rules, variables and things outsifpde the usual pubs has made this game incredibly volatile and far from what we used to know about old school Dota.
Clearly, people who have dedicated years and years to the game are bound to stray from the game. Even professionals are retiring due to lack of motivation and exhaustion.
I personally have stopped playing regularly and despite winning more often after the new calibration, am finding it hard to find more pros than cons to continue playing the game. If anything, I'll play pubs a couple of times a month and be done with that. This new year should bring major changes to my life, I hope. And playing Dota doesn't serve as a positive source of inspiration and use of time anymore.
people dont enjoy PLAYING anymore, but they still enjoy other things related to dota like streams, tournaments, funny videos etc. considering the average monthly player is like 500k and admiralbulldog on average pulls like 12k viewers, thats fucking 2.5% of all dota players watching that guy.
also, it's not surprising this is happening. playing this game is not rewarding. it's not fun. it's super stressful for most people and even wins feel like they drain your brain and energy. and the game is just an endless grind. 3k -> 4k -> 5k -> 6k. now what? you have like 0.01% chance of actually being successful as a pro player in this game and it's not even worth trying. by watching you can actually appreciate the beauty of the game without having to play it. you can laugh at things. you can PogChamp at things.
Imo this kind of games will always be stressing no matter what the developers do because they are TEAM-BASED. You play with other people, vs other people, you pay the price of other people's mistakes, rely on other people in order to win. And why the fuck do I have to lose games if I support like a god but my carry can't press one button to pop bkb in fights, why do I have to drop in mmr if I farm like rtz but my supports spend their time afking in the trees, I'm good, I deserve, ME ME ME. Human beings in a nutshell. In fact the communities of LoL and other games similar to Dota are equally trash and toxic. Only after one considers this, other reasons can be addressed.
LoL is easier and more casual-friendly for example, if I'm not mistaken players get rewarded for playing a lot and well, they release new skins and shit, idk how it works exactly. Dota is not only toxic and triggering due to the fact that it's a team-based game, but it's also fucking hard to learn.
I spent thousands of hours getting better to just lose because as a support player I'm forced to rely on my cores to win games, no matter how good I am I can't destroy ancients as Jakiro. But what if my cores are retarded, plus I get blamed for everything ESPECIALLY as support.
"Play carry then", how if everyone wants to go pos 1 and 2, 'cause why would I want to spend my time SUPPORTING and HELPING another person when I can be the one in charge, I'm BETTER (in fact the reason why I started maining pos 5 is because I was forced to, since no one wants/can supp. I don't even like spamming Jakiro every fucking game. How is this in any way fun, I have to adapt to the selfishness of my "teammates". This is where Dota stops being a game and becomes a job).
Do I have to instalock and first pick a carry every game? But then people will report me, I'll get countered, no one will support anyway but get junglers instead (I swear to god this is EVERY SINGLE TIME I play Sven for example). And how am I supposed to practice pos 1 consistently if the chances of playing the role every game are very low, unless I get used to not having supports, having junglers and people walking down mid or contesting my farm with another carry. No no, too triggering, even more than playing pos 5. See, there's no way out 'cause people can't cooperate for shit.
That's why everyone suggest to go mid to climb faster, midlaners are the ones that rely less on the team since it's a 1v1 battle in which you have to rely on YOUR skills only and you will also have the means necessary to win the game, being a core and having high priority in terms of farm.
The second reason is that there's a ranked system, and human beings are competitive by nature. You trigger that "I'm-the-alpha-and-I-have-to-prove-it-at-all-costs" thing in a person and they will become even more selfish and toxic than they already are. Trying to climb in a team-based game is basically against nature. Basically games like Dota will always be the mirror of the worst part of human nature and they will eventually collapse when the same human beings who made the enviroiment so toxic will leave the game because, lol, it has become too toxic.
I didn't play Dota 1, but I bet the game was much more fun and enjoyable before the ranked system was introduced. No wonder a lot of people play only in party with friends, or unranked (but even in unranked you will find tryhards. EVEN IN FUCKING TURBO). Friends are people we know and love, and all we wanna do with them is spend some time having fun. Those human beings have a face we know, a personality we are familiar with and that we like, they're not just random people. But the others don't deserve empathy or support because fuck them. The fact that it's an ONLINE game makes cooperating with other people even more difficult, we can't see our teammates, they're not with us, they're just "things" we unfortunately need to win in this shit team-based game, completely dehumanized. Just look at my nickname, can you believe irl I cry when I see a puppy dying and am very empathetic towards people? Nah, 'cause on Dota I'm a bitch too busy wishing death to my teammates. This game brings out the worst of me and that's why I personally wanna quit.
And lastly there's the fact that, being the game so complex, balancing everything is literally impossible. So if you don't manage to abuse the op hero of the moment chances are he's gonna be on the other team. A friend of mine quit Dota during the op sniper/troll patch because of this for example. Game was just fucking triggering, what if I don't like playing those heroes, I will just lose 'cause I have to choose between what I ENJOY playing and what I HAVE TO PLAY IN ORDER TO WIN. Again, Dota being more a job than a game.
It might all be a bunch of bullshit or I might have gone too deep into the analysis, maybe kids just got tired of this old toy, but I feel these are the real reasons
Make support more in control of the game. A core player by one great move in late game can secure the game, a very good player will do this each and every game for reliable wins. This same liberty should be done by supports as well, give supports an extra skill on late game so that supports dont feel garbage late game when they feel their cores are retarded.
Give supports more rewards for their plays in game. For example if a support player dewards all the enemy obs on the map make the suppport get extra gpm for that duration for the deward duration. Good support play is not rewarded enough imo and always relies on the carry. If a support 4 stacks ancients give him something extra as a result, if the carry is too dumb to farm those stacks in time and is instead over-extending and getting killed and the stack gets taken by the enemy thats the worst fukin feeling a support.
Balance in all things needs to be done more. Also give supports some more tower push so that they can try to end games sooner if they are really good. Buff meteor hammer 4 times or something and make only supports get that.
Imagine an item like that which you can get only if u play support , that would be legit and the support can do something to end the game soon. Most of the games under 5k I see , some retards pick core players and just wanna troll around and f*** with the mentality of others. Out of the 6 cores in the game atleast 2 are bound to be retarded and intentionally maybe subconciusly fuck up things for the team.
for me its mostly cancer heroes. all the meta picks lately have been fucking boring and change the game completely (necro meta- removes you for 120 secs, now tinker and AM, who are fucking unkillable and feels like they dont even play dota) i always feel shit when i cant be storm (playing safelane lately) and enemy has a tinker or techies, you just cant win against those
Hello where else can I shitpost
For me the deny xp change was the most annoying. Every time I see a ranged creep denied by my enemy I die a little bit inside knowing that it got pretty much wasted. Too much negative reinforcement for me to care about getting spending more time here.
I quitted 3 -4 months ago basically because of patch 7.00 + toxic community + unfair MMR system and no way to punish effectively leavers and trolls in the game.
I have played this game for more than 10 years since dota 1, but for me was time to retire. Dota right now is a game thats just makes you angry, theres no fun anymore. Be paired with players with 200h -500 hours in game is just ridiculous. I'm too old to deal with all this shit.
Yep. Playtime drastically reduced .. it was used to 5-6 games per day ... now i m just online on steam and now 2-3 games per week !
They dont promo the Majors on dota itself no hype no one knows
It's more like 3 out of 5 positions in dota is the most unfun shit ever. A game where advantage is based on gold that you get from farm but only 2 positions get to farm?
Also some heroes make certain supports the most worthless shit ever. Not to mention the right play is to first pick a support and then countered by some last pick bullshit core.
Game is just unfun if you don't get to play cores
also last picking bullshit heroes is the most dumbest shit to play against its pretty sad that a last pick is what wins you the game at the high level.
btw is it true that old calibration symstem is back ?
I kinda wish I was good at this game. I think I would enjoy boosting. but that would mean that I'd have to put more time into it
Dota 2's been around for like 5 years, you can't expect the playerbase to still be growing, especially something as beginner unfriendly as Dota. Just imagine when you first started playing Dota, now look at how many new heroes and items they've introduced since then.
I was in a cyber then I heard a guy talking bout how the game is just frustrating for no reason
You have to buy wards carry dust zone endure flame protect your cores while farming items predict movements stack pull care enemy Invis care ursa rosh your midlaner is bad so you have to make sure he doesn't feed his ass off but your safelaner whines cuz he needs you have to ward deep while not feeding all this dumbass shit all this suffering just for one fucking +25
Its not the same thing for cores tho you just hit the little guys then hit the big guys then hit the buildings actually that simple
But you can't pick core every game so game is less fun than it should be
Which is why I play it every two or three weeks
One of the biggest reasons for the fall in player base are the huge and frequent changes we have seen in the past year.
7.00 speaks for itself, there is no need to explain how much it brought and took away from the game.
7.07 is another example, and the three new heroes we saw introduced to the game are incredibly unique in what they bring.
These patches and those between them have been hugely balanced, making almost every single hero in the game viable or strong in atleast a few scenarios. That makes it difficult to maintain a good winrate, due to most players having a small hero pool and being unable to ban or counterpick even in pubs.
Besides that, the Dota Pro Circuit, changes to Ranked System, Matchmaking changes, introduction of dozens of new mechanics, rules, variables and things outsifpde the usual pubs has made this game incredibly volatile and far from what we used to know about old school Dota.
Clearly, people who have dedicated years and years to the game are bound to stray from the game. Even professionals are retiring due to lack of motivation and exhaustion.
I personally have stopped playing regularly and despite winning more often after the new calibration, am finding it hard to find more pros than cons to continue playing the game. If anything, I'll play pubs a couple of times a month and be done with that. This new year should bring major changes to my life, I hope. And playing Dota doesn't serve as a positive source of inspiration and use of time anymore.
people dont enjoy PLAYING anymore, but they still enjoy other things related to dota like streams, tournaments, funny videos etc. considering the average monthly player is like 500k and admiralbulldog on average pulls like 12k viewers, thats fucking 2.5% of all dota players watching that guy.
make dota more fun.
simple.
there's too many things going on now. make it simpler.
remove invis.
remove techies.
remove pango
return the side shop.
remove shrines
remove backpack.
simplify talents
remove meteor hammer
remove mango
remove farie fire
remove bloodthorn.
remove nullifier
also, it's not surprising this is happening. playing this game is not rewarding. it's not fun. it's super stressful for most people and even wins feel like they drain your brain and energy. and the game is just an endless grind. 3k -> 4k -> 5k -> 6k. now what? you have like 0.01% chance of actually being successful as a pro player in this game and it's not even worth trying. by watching you can actually appreciate the beauty of the game without having to play it. you can laugh at things. you can PogChamp at things.
Nerf morph first volvo
they just went to pubg for sometime , after the game is dead they will comeback to dota 2
but they brought you turbo where you can go 5 carry dream team
People move on. Others start.
Having said that, valve need to do more battle cups and stuff. Game is so much better as a team and not dealing with random bullshit of solo queue.
There needs to be season leagues for teams across all mmr. Even just shitty hats would be sufficient motivation to have people carry on playing.
Imo this kind of games will always be stressing no matter what the developers do because they are TEAM-BASED. You play with other people, vs other people, you pay the price of other people's mistakes, rely on other people in order to win. And why the fuck do I have to lose games if I support like a god but my carry can't press one button to pop bkb in fights, why do I have to drop in mmr if I farm like rtz but my supports spend their time afking in the trees, I'm good, I deserve, ME ME ME. Human beings in a nutshell. In fact the communities of LoL and other games similar to Dota are equally trash and toxic. Only after one considers this, other reasons can be addressed.
LoL is easier and more casual-friendly for example, if I'm not mistaken players get rewarded for playing a lot and well, they release new skins and shit, idk how it works exactly. Dota is not only toxic and triggering due to the fact that it's a team-based game, but it's also fucking hard to learn.
I spent thousands of hours getting better to just lose because as a support player I'm forced to rely on my cores to win games, no matter how good I am I can't destroy ancients as Jakiro. But what if my cores are retarded, plus I get blamed for everything ESPECIALLY as support.
"Play carry then", how if everyone wants to go pos 1 and 2, 'cause why would I want to spend my time SUPPORTING and HELPING another person when I can be the one in charge, I'm BETTER (in fact the reason why I started maining pos 5 is because I was forced to, since no one wants/can supp. I don't even like spamming Jakiro every fucking game. How is this in any way fun, I have to adapt to the selfishness of my "teammates". This is where Dota stops being a game and becomes a job).
Do I have to instalock and first pick a carry every game? But then people will report me, I'll get countered, no one will support anyway but get junglers instead (I swear to god this is EVERY SINGLE TIME I play Sven for example). And how am I supposed to practice pos 1 consistently if the chances of playing the role every game are very low, unless I get used to not having supports, having junglers and people walking down mid or contesting my farm with another carry. No no, too triggering, even more than playing pos 5. See, there's no way out 'cause people can't cooperate for shit.
That's why everyone suggest to go mid to climb faster, midlaners are the ones that rely less on the team since it's a 1v1 battle in which you have to rely on YOUR skills only and you will also have the means necessary to win the game, being a core and having high priority in terms of farm.
The second reason is that there's a ranked system, and human beings are competitive by nature. You trigger that "I'm-the-alpha-and-I-have-to-prove-it-at-all-costs" thing in a person and they will become even more selfish and toxic than they already are. Trying to climb in a team-based game is basically against nature. Basically games like Dota will always be the mirror of the worst part of human nature and they will eventually collapse when the same human beings who made the enviroiment so toxic will leave the game because, lol, it has become too toxic.
I didn't play Dota 1, but I bet the game was much more fun and enjoyable before the ranked system was introduced. No wonder a lot of people play only in party with friends, or unranked (but even in unranked you will find tryhards. EVEN IN FUCKING TURBO). Friends are people we know and love, and all we wanna do with them is spend some time having fun. Those human beings have a face we know, a personality we are familiar with and that we like, they're not just random people. But the others don't deserve empathy or support because fuck them. The fact that it's an ONLINE game makes cooperating with other people even more difficult, we can't see our teammates, they're not with us, they're just "things" we unfortunately need to win in this shit team-based game, completely dehumanized. Just look at my nickname, can you believe irl I cry when I see a puppy dying and am very empathetic towards people? Nah, 'cause on Dota I'm a bitch too busy wishing death to my teammates. This game brings out the worst of me and that's why I personally wanna quit.
And lastly there's the fact that, being the game so complex, balancing everything is literally impossible. So if you don't manage to abuse the op hero of the moment chances are he's gonna be on the other team. A friend of mine quit Dota during the op sniper/troll patch because of this for example. Game was just fucking triggering, what if I don't like playing those heroes, I will just lose 'cause I have to choose between what I ENJOY playing and what I HAVE TO PLAY IN ORDER TO WIN. Again, Dota being more a job than a game.
It might all be a bunch of bullshit or I might have gone too deep into the analysis, maybe kids just got tired of this old toy, but I feel these are the real reasons
They need to bring back Jungle and new item that boost support GPM
Make support more in control of the game. A core player by one great move in late game can secure the game, a very good player will do this each and every game for reliable wins. This same liberty should be done by supports as well, give supports an extra skill on late game so that supports dont feel garbage late game when they feel their cores are retarded.
Give supports more rewards for their plays in game. For example if a support player dewards all the enemy obs on the map make the suppport get extra gpm for that duration for the deward duration. Good support play is not rewarded enough imo and always relies on the carry. If a support 4 stacks ancients give him something extra as a result, if the carry is too dumb to farm those stacks in time and is instead over-extending and getting killed and the stack gets taken by the enemy thats the worst fukin feeling a support.
Balance in all things needs to be done more. Also give supports some more tower push so that they can try to end games sooner if they are really good. Buff meteor hammer 4 times or something and make only supports get that.
Imagine an item like that which you can get only if u play support , that would be legit and the support can do something to end the game soon. Most of the games under 5k I see , some retards pick core players and just wanna troll around and f*** with the mentality of others. Out of the 6 cores in the game atleast 2 are bound to be retarded and intentionally maybe subconciusly fuck up things for the team.
Gaben if you are hearing to us , please PM me . XD
I am a noob :( how to be pro help me cookie :(
for me its mostly cancer heroes. all the meta picks lately have been fucking boring and change the game completely (necro meta- removes you for 120 secs, now tinker and AM, who are fucking unkillable and feels like they dont even play dota) i always feel shit when i cant be storm (playing safelane lately) and enemy has a tinker or techies, you just cant win against those
Haven't seen AM and necro in awhile
Game feels unrewarding as fuck for how much energy it takes you to improve or gain anything
Playing the game casually is also retarded due to the "why the hell am I stagnating" feeling you get
Game is dying. Adapting to new dota is tiring and waste of time and game so fvcking long that make me wonder why i play this game in the first place
I rather study all of music instrument than playing dota.