General Discussionhow did i lose

For starters, why the hell do you have an Abyssal Blade? Jugg's Blade Fury the only spell immunity on their entire team and, even then, good luck closing on him to use it. If you think you need to buy Abyssal on Naga that game is already done. Also, Diffusal isn't a Naga items anymore and has been replaced with Orchid into Bloodthorn. Most common items on Naga are Treads, Manta, Heart, Bloodthorn, Skadi, Butterfly, Scepter, Shard, Witch's Blade, BKB and Scythe. Diffu is only in six percent of pro pubs. At 26 minutes you wander around aimlessly because you have Skadi instead of Heart - for Naga, heart is partially a farming item that lets your images farm the jungle and solo waves. I'm guessing you thought the game was as good as won - it was as DotaPlus gives a 98 percent win chance at 22 minutes - so you just thought "we're going to win so I'm going to get an item that helps me get even more kills". Basically, you itemized to pad your scoreline in an already won game over an item that would actually win you the game.

I'm watching you trying to farm ancients at 26 minutes and they are just melting your illusions. I play 95 percent hard support and have zero Naga games, but now I understand that 80 percent of the ultity of Heart on Naga is for farming, not fighting. Hilariously, DotaPlus still gives your team an 81 percent win chance, despite your collective will to throw.

Looks like you completely threw around 22 minutes diving for kills on Necro, instead of just calmly taking racks. In less than 60 seconds you went from an 8.5k net worth lead to a 4k net worth lead.

What the hell are you doing at 25*45? You just go bottom high ground solo while your team is hitting mid tower. Undying just popped his Tombstone mid and you should be playing around it. It be fair, he should be playing around you but there's four of them mid and you are solo bottom. You hit song *while* in sprout. Your Jakiro has Euls but no Force Staff - Jak is my most played hero and I don't think I've bought Euls on him in a couple years. Force staff on a support is absolutely mandatory against Prophet. TBF, Jak ends of ditching the Euls for Force staff around 31 mins.

At 29*45 you take your second set of racks and then just decide to dive for kills. Four of you died. At this point, you should have realized you can't take objectives until you have Heart. This is where you back off and take Roshan. Instead, Dire takes Roshan and your win chance drops from 84 percent to 69 percent.

At 33 minutes you're trying to take a tower solo against a Jugg with aegis. WTAF. TBF, 3 of your team are off in the jungle trying to kill a Phoenix, which doesnt work because she has escape and none of them have lockdown. Honestly, if they had been focused on objectives over trying to kill a support that push should have worked. OTOH, their Necro was mindlessly running down mid so you'd have lost had he bothered to show up.

Your Zeus just blatantly feeds Jugg at 33*45. What is it about "Jugg with aegis" that your team does not understand? You still have a 61 percent win chance at 35 minutes.

At 35 minutes, lanes are pushed in bottom, but not top, so you should know most of them are bottom. You should have died but their team didn't capitalize. Underlord stays around and feeds 30 seconds later, however, you still have a 58 percent win chance.

At 37 minutes you take a game losing fight trying to get a kill on Necro. Game is over and the next 18 minutes is just mop up for Dire.

Underlord ends the game with Arcane Boots. Good Lord. WTF does he have Eternal Shroud but no Wraith Pact or Pipe? No Soul Ring and two Bracers? Does he think he's in the game to right click Jugg? No BKB? How the hell is that guy Archon 3? Looks like he mostly plays support but if you play a role you don't specialize in just pick strong heroes that are easy to play. Yes, Underlord is super easy but he is pretty weak this patch unless you are playing against specific heroes, e.g. Naga Siren. There is no way I would pick Underlord unless I absolutely knew I didn't have to face Jugg or Ursa.

Wraith Pact is the item of the patch and you have two heroes that are legit Pact carriers, Underlord and Undying.

Undying has Greaves instead of Tranqs. That he would get Greaves over Wraith Pact just blows my mind. I have yet to see him use Lotus Orb on a core, not that it really matters in this game, which indicates he fundamentally doesn't understand why a support would buy that item. What is he trying to shield or dispel? Not only is the item pretty pointless in this game but he doesn't even understand it's function.

Jakiro completely feeds at 26 minutes

That game was so completely won a bunch of stuff had to go wrong to throw it. The feeding in the 22 to 26 minute range is so blatant I think we should chalk that up to arrogance rather than not understanding how to play. The lesson, there, is *don't be arrogant*. But in terms of mistakes, I would say that Skadi before Heart was the single biggest error of the game. Herald tip**when in doubt, just build what the pros are building. The other issue is going after useless kills but that is an issue of f***ing around rather than a mistake.

A) follow pro builds
B) scorelines are overrated.

That pretty much sums up the game.

Herald commends on Archon rank))))

Hey, fran, was my analysis wrong? Please, by all means, correct me.

LOL.... dude Herald lays the SMACKDOWN.

This was hilarious and a great analysis!

@Upgrayedd - your reaction times or map awareness or something must be AWFUL for you to still in herald cos your analysis is really good! And I'm not insulting you, I also have very good analysis and strategy skills but I have terrible reaction times and below average map awareness.... which are 2 reasons why I am hard stuck in crusader!

Jugg's Blade Fury the only spell immunity on their entire team

Necro and Tuskar be like "Guess bkb doesn't give spell immunity"

Diffusal isn't a Naga items anymore and has been replaced with Orchid into Bloodthorn

Diffusal- 2500 gold
Orchid- 3475 gold
Thorn- orchid+ 3325 gold

Hey guys, let me just delay my power spike. Not like enemy have high mana dependent hero with small mana pool.

That aside, purely based on your bracket and lineup, Radiant had early lead, got cocky, did random unnecessary dives, threw the lead, lost the game.
Now, if you really care about improving at the game, download and watch your own replay, acknowledge your mistakes and try to fix them.

A)I play hard support. I would say half my carries show up to lane with completely useless item builds, e.g. brown boots, no items, no qulling on melee, naked bracer, no regen, 4 sages masks on Sven (yes, I actually had that game)
B) I work *a lot* and often play after working 12 hours.

@tv/adgoku24

It looks like Dota 2 Pro Tracker has around 150 games of Naga played by a pro player in a pub and only 4 of those games have Diffu. In comparison, 9 of them have Radiance. So, pro players are more than twice as likely to get Radiance on Naga as they are to get Diffu. Not saying that Diffu is worthless on Naga, i don't play the hero, but the pros clearly think other options are much better. Look like three quarters of them have orchid and most of those built into Thorn if the game went long enough

Monkeys Forever played a game against a Jugg/Lesh combo and didnt bother with Diffu. Instead, he got Witch's Blade, presumably to deal with Lesh.

1) I spammed pos 5 from guardian to legend.
2) Well, I don't know what "a lot" of work is, but when I was on job, I didn't even have time to play a single game of dota, let alone make long threads on forums blaming teammates.
3) There's literally no comparison between "low mmr games" (anything below 6.5k or even 7k) and pro player pubs. You can't just watch 7k+ players and try to copy that in your games. Below 4k, a naga with diffusal = enemy walking around with less than 40% mana always. If that's a advantage you don't like to have, there's a reason why you might be losing games. ALSO, Diffusal is one of the best item on illusion heroes, WHEN enemy has high mana reliant heroes with low mana pool.

There's literally no comparison between "low mmr games" (anything below 6.5k or even 7k) and pro player pubs.

Let's think about this logically. Let's say that the game is completely different at a 5k pub versus a pro pub. This gives us a simple, logical IF-THEN statement

IF a pro pub is completely different from a 5k pub
THEN what works in pro pubs won't work in 5k pubs

Therefore, a pro player who plays in a 5k pub wouldn't be able to win in a 5k pub because what works in pro pubs does not work in 5k pubs. Seriously, that is what you are saying. No, dota is just like chess - the game is exactly the same but the players just get better. You are engaging in the fallacy of the excluded middle, where there are "low mmr pubs" and there are pro pubs. Really, though, if what you are saying were true then if Topson did in Herald games he would lose because "the game is completely different and there is no comparison".

From my understanding, Diffu mana break works in *all* units with mana and any jungle creep with an active ability will have mana - it looks to me like around 90 percent of jungle units have an active ability.. Between 7.31 and 7.32 the damage from mana break dealt by illusions has fallen in half, from 16 to 8. This probably means Diffu was being used by Naga, prior to 7.32, as a farming tool as well as a fighting tool, so it's probably due to the fact that Naga farms way less quickly with Diffu over previous patches.

IF a pro pub is completely different from a 5k pub
THEN what works in pro pubs won't work in 5k pubs

Therefore, a pro player who plays in a 5k pub wouldn't be able to win in a 5k pub because what works in pro pubs does not work in 5k pubs.

Football- simple game.
Casual team plays the same game like the pro league team.
But do you really think, the TYPE of football played will be anywhere close to each other?
Also, do you really think, Messi/Cr will have any trouble adjusting to a casual team and win game against other casuals?

There's a massive difference in skill, understanding, and efficiency.

A immortal smurf, playing at herald, won't be making/needing optimal builds to win the games. When I was around 2k, I've met first pick meepo/morph smurfs, that still wiped the floor with more than 3 counters.

The reality is you highly overestimate your skills at the game, you can keep coping, but that doesn't change the fact.
Simple stuff - bad player = low mmr

Diffusal on Naga is very terrible. Illusion heroes should go yasha + 1 for faster farm because they are not strong and need to outfarm the enemy.
One way to look should you buy diffusal or not is like this: your skill is already strong + your team has sustain. Thats why diffusal is good for slark, occasionally good for ursa.
Talking about yasha and itemization, I see a lot of players bought the wrong item (lance instead of yasha). One example is medusa. In my opinion, why do you buy lance when you don't do that much damage? Think about it this way. Drow and sniper can go for lance since they already have damage from passive, but in the case medusa, hell no.

Naga with a diffusal, literally shuts down low mana pool, mana dependent heroes. It's all about adjusting to the game. Making same items every game, regardless of lineup is the brain dead way of playing the game. Imagine playing against a bristleback/tusk type of heroes, and letting them spam spells, when just 1 ensnare + 4 illu brings them to 10% mana and gives you easy gank advantage at mid game.
But yes, VERY terrible item. Why make a 2.5k gold item where your illus can counter heroes, when you can afk farm and aim for highest net worth, not like enemies are going to push the advantage.

@adgoku24

So, explain to me why Diffu on Naga is around one in twenty games. What are you getting that the pros are missing? Oh, right, nothing. The pros understand that naga is farm dependent and that Diffu no longer gives naga farm. The reason Naga doesn't get Diffu isnt that Diffu isnt' good in fights - it is - it's that Diffu no longer facilitates Naga's ability to farm items.

But, hey, don't school me, school the pros. Why are those idiot pros not buying Diffu on naga? Is it they don't understand that you don't need to farm on Naga? Why farm creeps when you can just run around the map on naga getting kills? I mean, kills give more gold than farming creeps, amirite? (true, story. I had a PA in a won lane tell me she could get more gold from farming kills than creeps and that she could win lane with zero last hits).

Goodluck with that mindset adgoku. 8 mana/s burn for Naga, really a lot of mana dependent hero. Instead of buying diffusal why not orchid, which helps you shut down one hero in 2 sec

@adgoku24

IF the pro pubs are so much different than herald pub THEN there should be things that work in pro pubs that *don't* work in Herald pubs.

Okay, so, give me an example of something that would win against pros but that wouldnt win against Heralds. Seriously, I'm curious to see what Heralds would beat that pros wouldn't beat. I mean, if the pro game is completely different from the Herald game then Heralds could beat stuff pros couldnt.

Your football analogy is bad. Chess is a better analogy. In Chess, the game is exactly the same. The only difference is that as you move up in elo the players are better. Dota is exactly like chess, the game is the same no matter how good or bad you are at it.

For those of you who wonder why I can give these sort of analyses ... when I play in games with people who grief I absolutely *sh*t* on them verbally the entire game. This includes people I'm playing *against*. I don't want to play CM support with 8 mangoes and 4 clarities in lane against a support Invoker who starts with no items and rushes Aghs. How is that even DOTA? Look, this is what I play with and against in Herald and ***holes like you perpetuate that by telling people "anything works in herald". If I'm playing *against* people who are clearly griefing I will spend 40 straight minutes sh**ing on them in all chat for queuing in rank. You want to run that sh**? Go play turbo. I like to sometimes get drunk and do stupid sh** in DOTA, and when I do I go play turbo.

Saying nonsense like "anything works in herald" or "the game is completely different in pro pubs" ruins low mmr games. Those are the two statements are the two most toxic, game ruining statements in DOTA. Stop saying them.

@adgoku24

The reason I have to play against a support invoker who starts with no items is that ***holes like you say things like "anything works in herald" and "the game is totally different from pro pubs". Both those statements are lies. Please stop lying.

@adgoku24

I have a challenge for you. If you are so good, why don't you make s smurf account and do nothing but play Invoker hard support, start every game with no items and rush Aghs Sceptre. Post your account and tell us so we can see how much better at the game you are than Heralds. Seriously, go do that. I wanna see how *good* you are at Dota running hard support Invoker who basically doesn't lane and rushes sceptre.

Its sad that u trying to actually win and ur herald, this bracket is for A: people who are just chilling doing whatever B: people who are new and dont know shit about the game C: people with learning disabilities. Ur C

@rainwalker,
3 illus = 24 mana burn
1 hero = 40 mana burn
Orchid is 1k gold extra. So it's always going to be 3 mins more to farm a orchid on naga. Between 10-20 mins, most heroes in the game hit their power spikes. Orchid is a far better item if you have a team that plays with it. At 4k, what happens in most cases is, you will orchid the tuskar, and your teammates will be shagging around.
At high mmr pubs, players co-ordinate their plays. Similarly why the wraithpact rush enigma gets hard punished in low mmr games. Players don't know how to play around those items.
As I said before, it's all about adjusting to the bracket.

I have a challenge for you. If you are so good, why don't you make s smurf account and do nothing but play Invoker hard support

why would I make smurf lol, I barely play 4 games on my main account. Unlike the "a lot busy" man, I have life outside of Dota.

The most I can do is party together with you for unranked games. That will be kinda smurfing, right?

P.s.- I don't know where you got that, but I really don't think I'm "so good", If I was, I wouldn't be a 4k scrub after 8k games LOL. All I'm saying is heralds are worse. Not even in a mean way, just factual.

Orchid is better on naga and it has nothing to do with teamplay, its just a better item now for killing a single hero in the ensnare. Diffusal is shitter item to try to do that but its cheaper.

Aight you have the way to think but you use it wrongly Goku. I was thinking you're different but none to the twitch chat who blame Crystallis not going diffu against medusa =))