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        _..... ye

        Nero Scarlet

          But is it as good as +6 treants?


            How about other character like pa, morph, pudge

            The Robot Devil

              Very good read -- in general, it sounds like the regen abilities (mana or health/lifesteal) are the way to go, with some exceptions. That's been my experience.

              ETA: and stats, I like stats usually.

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              Sei la

                That's kindda stupid... Some of talents (like shorter respawn) are mostly picked when the team is already in a losing position. of course the winrate is smaller!




                    As long as Replicate is treated like an illusion, and everything can fart it into oblivion, little buffs to its autoattack literally won't matter anything.

                    Brünk Hüll


                      Generally you are correct, shorter respawn can be seen as a way to get back into the game, but keep in mind that some of those talents are at lvl 25 for supports. If your support is 25, either you are ahead or it is a very long, close game. If it is the former, you respawn faster and potentially die more often, throwing the game. If it is the long, close game, any fight could end the game, and you should be opting to save for buyback anyway, so the lower respawn time is generally going to come into play. Either you buyback, thus making it useless, or you lose because you couldn't get back in time even with the lower respawn.

                      In most situations where a support is 25, it doesn't matter what talent they choose, which is why the discrepancy isn't more severe. Lower respawn time earlier in the game for supports would in theory have a larger effect on the game.

                      *FarizTampan99 2nd

                        pa, morph, pudge

                        not include in the topic because their winrate in both talents almost same , so no need to discuss them



                          On Meepo I'm still unsure which one is better to get at level 15. Lifesteal or movement speed. Do you mind telling the winrates?

                          Brünk Hüll


                            I think that ultimately depends on how you play the meepo. If you get blink you're not likely going to be needing the movement speed as you'll be playing assassin style. You might do better with movement speed if you are split pushing. The winrates might shed some light on which build is better though.


                              Cent return aura with 5 str team........


                                hm not bad


                                  4% Spell amp is laughable.


                                    viper one doesn't make sense


                                      Ah, the old Questionable Cause fallacy. You really nailed it with this article. Oh look, almost all of the heroes who choose a reduced respawn time or a strength gain have a worse win rate than when those same heroes chose a more offensive talent. I wonder if that's because the vast majority of the time, those talents are chosen because the team is already losing... nahhh.


                                        Yeah. Use the same logic, notice that teams that use glyph a lot tend to lose their games. Better stop using glyph guys.

                                        Stats do lie my friend.

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                                          useless article at best. at worst it will hurt the decisions of those that read it.

                                          "many talent choices in this list can be looked at as independent from the state of the game" are you kidding? thats the dumbest thing ive heard in a while.

                                          i'm no expert but i play higher mmr games than the author, why on earth is he allowed to spread lies to the masses.


                                            KawaiiSocks is 4.5, you're 4 @ The Peru Effect ... Lmao you're playing equal mmr games.
                                            But I do agree with you. The talent choices ARE dependent on the state of the game. Like the supports' gold/xp talents, they are more often than not picking them up from a losing position, as a desperate last chance attempt to turn the tides, which often doesn't happen, leading to their lower winrates. If it was possible, examine these talent choice options when reviewing games that are as equal as possible(net worth, xp and push as determining factors of "equal") when the talent choice was made, only then can conclusions have solid basis.

                                            God of Ducks

                                              STOP IGNORING TECHIES DAMMIT


                                                +4% spell amplification is almost nothing on its own, but it leads to 15-20% spell dmg amplification when coupled with Aether Lens + Tinker's intelligence.

                                                It's like 10% lifesteal: it's little on its own but may mean a huge difference when you pair it with another +15% lifesteal source (25% lifesteal is very impactant).

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                                                  Wrong result. When game is won already, you can pick any talent. Just for fun. But if you afraid to loose everything, you should pick a useful talents. Like respawn time

                                                  Water.Crystallize :)

                                                    Tinker, the best of the best :D