@op
you just need to demonstrate exceptional skill for 30 or 40 so wins. i suggest you gather a group of strong people and play together. if you guys saw my posts before, you know that i was once in the trash pool. but now im back up, in the higher brackets. solo queuing has never been so satisfying.
if you're playing in sea region, you can partner me up. i have a few really strong pals and we can work our way up , not by making smurfs. imho smurfs are pathetic way of getting back up.
another note, once you're back up, dont ever sink back down. no matter what happens , never lose 0/15/0.
deaths must be lower than assists. that way u can maintain your position on the higher brackets.
another word of advice, if you are already losing, try not to collect too many deaths. stay passive and dont die until the game ends.
i wont even bother posting one sided mm threads that had around 200pages
+ tons of other smaller mm threads, tests with smurfs and so on cuz they all got closed after few pages
@kill me
ignore him. he's just glorifying himself. let him, he told me i would not want to mess with his qop at mid. oooh so scary, watching his previous qop gameplays, hes bad at last hitting and denies.
i'd win him with a magnus anytime at mid.
oh did i mention hes afraid to accept my friend request and play a few rounds? im referring to swordie btw
Normal bracket ranges from total nubs who have never played to players who have played 1000 games but have slow fingers, or don't make any serious effort to break nub habits, or only play solo and are just average players...However depending on who ques together actual pro players sometimes are put in normal, and also anyone who happens to be on a losing streak.
(at any given time 85% of players solo que into Normal)
High bracket players know basically how all heroes function, try to control the lane, try to ward (maybe deward), try to play hero roles, have above average hero control, the weaker 5 stacks tend to end up in High.
(at any given time 10% of players solo que into High)
Very High bracket games include an odd mix of the following --- 5 stack tryhard players --- very talented morons who cs extremely well, but feed --- random nubs who got qued into Very High for a couple games with a friend --- solid groups of 2,3, or 4 experienced highly skilled players...above that 5 stacks of very talented, experienced players who actually play together on a team....and on the very top pro players and pro player aliases carrying a few good pub players with them to beat the typical 5 stacks, usually streaming the game as well...extremely rarely 5 v 5 pro team games that will get several thousand observers.
(at any time 5% of players solo que into Very High)
Very broadly speaking better players and more coordinated play will be found in the High and Very High bracket, but you if don't really carry your MMR you will lose games and get knocked back down. So even if you get carried into Very High, you can't stay there if you don't deserve it.
Suppose I have 5% of my games in Very High, 75% in High, and 20% in Normal. I don't really belong in Very High though from time to time I get placed there. But once there I will lose in a game or two and get knocked back into High. If I choose to practice heroes I am bad at while solo queing for a dozen games or so I will lose enough MMR to go back all the way to Normal. If I pick my best heroes again I will go back up to High in a few games and with a bit of stacking back into Very High.
The point is if you want to play at the highest MMR you can reach you will have to limit your hero choices to a few of the best and try your best to win every game. If you are a bit less considered about what bracket you are in you will be able to try more things and have more fun in my opinion.
"High bracket players know basically how all heroes function, try to control the lane, try to ward (maybe deward), try to play hero roles, have above average hero control, the weaker 5 stacks tend to end up in High."
The short answer is: you don't know what rating you are. Partially you don't know because it is hidden. Partially you don't know because it changes every game from your previous wins/losses. As I was explaining - the same player can and often does have a very different MMR over the course of a dozen games depending on whether you happen to win or lose.
It really should not be as volatile as it is in my opinion. But there is a trade-off in a TSR based system where you have more stable ratings and the system is vunerable to exploitation by smurfs or you quickly get smurfs up to high ratings negating most of their impact, but you get people tending to swing back and forth on win and loss streaks because their MMR is more unstable.
Clearly Valve has it set up to change MMR fairly quickly to keep smurfing to a minimum. I would prefer that smurfs were allowed to get away with a bit more and everyone's ratings were more stable.
and lol at this
"High bracket players know basically how all heroes function, try to control the lane, try to ward (maybe deward), try to play hero roles, have above average hero control, the weaker 5 stacks tend to end up in High."
"High bracket players know basically how all heroes function, try to control the lane, try to ward (maybe deward), try to play hero roles, have above average hero control, the weaker 5 stacks tend to end up in High."
1. During the picks, purple calls solo mid. Ok, whatever. He then RANDOMS, you heard right, he RANDOMS after calling solo mid, and gets shadow shaman. I ask him why he calls mid if he is going to then random. He just repicks into QoP, whatever..
2. The enemy have picked Spirit Breaker, and I believe Wisp as well by now. So who do my allies pick? They pick fucking Medusa and Furion. The two WORST possible heroes you can pick in this situation. Medusa tries to do ancients and gets raped multiple times by SB, and eventually does nothing in the game. Furion gets raped constantly too, and instead of buying something useful, maybe to help him split push or survive a few ganks, he goes for Dagon, which was very, very late as you can imagine. I should also mention that he doesn't know how to jungle (he started with QB..).
That apparently are the kinds of players allowed in the "high bracket"
Now compare that to the game before, which mind you we got quite lucky with our heroes (it was AR).
http://dotabuff.com/matches/182554723 I play a shit Huskar (never played him before in DotA2, not even against bots), but we manage to rape the enemy. KOTL wards 24/7. Quite a contrast to the match before, no?
Anyways im off, pool are up 2-0 in 20 minutes without our main forward, shit is getting real
Can't tell the difference between half the games in the normal and high bracket, heck even the VH bracket (even at the lower level of VH you do expect a little better) you get 1-2 retards every time.
I cant but feel that Relentless is learning how the things are in dota 2 not from the game itself, but from some theoretic books or something like that, cuz almost everything he says can be right in reality but actually is not.
Its a simple matter of my objective view compared to the extreme pessimism displayed by mockers and whiners.
Any of the skill brackets will have some terrible players, as I have said myself many times. However, in general Very High will be stronger players than High which will be stronger than Normal. High and Very High almost never have people who are actually new to dota. Yes, I know you think you see bad players in High or even Very High games...but what you really see are people who happen to be on a hero they don't play well, having a bad start, and then snowballing into more failure.
"I cant but feel that Relentless is learning how the things are in dota 2 not from the game itself, but from some theoretic books or something like that, cuz almost everything he says can be right in reality but actually is not."
This is pretty much it. Ideally what you are saying is right, but its not what we are experiencing in many, many games. The variance in skill level from game to game makes no sense.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/168243373 here you are 1-6-1 with kunka, your team had 10 kills but apparently you could not even do an autoattack on a nearby creep to get an assist with tidebringer
http://dotabuff.com/matches/168253398 the very next game you are 16-0-7 on luna in only 20 minutes! Is this the same player? "the variance in skill level from game to game makes no sense"? what?
You pretend to not know your own reality. You have vastly different levels of skill from hero to hero and game to game...as does everyone. It should not surprise you that the same is true for other people.
Sometimes people play a hero very well or badly. They come into the game with the same MMR both ways. Complaining about or even being surprised by this natural variability...um you guys are the ones who are thinking only about an imaginary, theoretical world where people have consistent play from game to game and hero to hero.
If you would learn to correctly judge skill from play you would be able to see that the difference between the best and worst players in your games are not that large. Matchmaking is close enough that either team could win. If they played 10 games it would probably be 5 to 5. But since only one game is played you whine about the half of the games when you happen to lose and forget about the ones you win. You complain about the games where someone else feeds, but forget the ones where you feed.
Similarly for "lie to me agen fagt" he knows how to win with tiny and is 24-7 win/loss. But he does not have anywhere near the same skill on tinker and is 4-16 win/loss. If he picks tiny he is very likely to play well and win. If he plays tinker, he is just as likely to play badly and lose.
Prior to my experience of about 200 odd games in dota, I have come to conclude that games on the higher end of the spectrum usually have the tendency to have extremely low kill and death rates but extremely high creep kills. On the flip side, games on the lower end of the spectrum have a very very high kill and death rates . With that being said, I have never come across a game where creep scores were high and kill scores are low . My longest streak being 9 games( though not proud of it because I used drow ranger). Pub games generally worked fairly well for me , however everytime i get around a 5 to 6 win streak I seem to realise that my teamates become marginally less capable than the oppossing side . Can anyone look into my profile and take a look at where I fall short ? Or am I just a plain old noob
In the match with Kunkka 3 of us gave up after the first minute. Why? We had arranged a dual top (me and lich), furion in the jungle and pudge mid. We have all moved to our lane, and tell Tao to pick an offlane hero. You want to know what he did? He picks Void, and without saying a word the entire game, he moves to our safelane, despite everyone else on our team telling him to get fucked. He clearly has no idea what he is doing, I wasn't even farming at all for the majority of the game (just waiting around and telling the enemies to end, and this guy still has lower CS than me, that's to give you an idea of this guy's skill. So why did I give up so early? Because he was in my match before, and did a very similar thing. He went to the offlane, and within a minute he decides to join me at mid lane, for no reason at all, and didn't even say a word. I tell him to fuck off for about 5 minutes, and eventually he goes top where our tri-lane is. So what does he do? Does he try and get a kill? Nope, he just sits their passively fucking up the lane even more. The majority of kills that we got were just pudge solo killing people, and in fact I was involved in a lot of fights, but we lost basically all of them, I mean when they have 2 people getting free farm and we have 1 moron on Void, it's to be expected. You can ask anyone else on my team about how hard we tried given how shit out lanes were, they won't say a thing. This wasn't a different level of skill with the hero, but you not having any idea of the context. I can play Kunkka just fine, just not when I don't have a lane to go to, despite having organised a dual lane and getting it taken by some retard that can't play the game at all nor communicate with anyone.
Do you really believe that the skill variance is not that large? So from a Dazzle who supports by pulling and stacking, buying the courier + bird + wards constantly, a KOTL who buys a bird from the start, pulls constantly and has wards up the entire game, to a Jakiro who contests last hits, no courier no wards (from him), no pulls, spams the chat saying he is the carry, builds EB first (and no it wasn't quick)...no variance?
Game #2, this Tao faggot contests my farm again, never pulls, throws his axes like 2cm away from his hero despite me telling him he can throw them at max range. Even at one point I got Sniper to low HP by myself, and well within Axes range, and he didn't even use his axes..despite having full mana. Retard enemise and a retard Tao.
I'm not even basing this on score or anything, just look at the way that these guys are playing.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/182588756 He picks a MEDUSA to fucking go ancients despite both Wisp and Barathum already being picked. It's just asking to get raped over, and over. The guy who picked Furion started off with QB + RoP + 3 branhes..and he pulled as well, forcing me to take last hits under the tower, making my HP low against a Barathum + Venomancer lane, which wasn't nice. Oh, and did I mention we didn't have a courier until like 15 minutes into the game? This is despite all 4 of my allies feeding and achieving nothing. So what does Furion do to avoid getting raped constantly. He tries to build dagon..yeah, great item choice, lets him split push so well, lets him take on a charging bara so well. Medusa would keep going ancients and wouldn't even respond when Barathum was charging her (and we had quite a bit of vision as well..)
I've had a negative KD in 4 of my last 20 matches..
This is about the simple fact that you are far better at some heroes than others. When you play the worst ones you can't hold your MMR, you are overated unless you are already on a big losing streak. When you play the best ones you are underrated unless you are already on a big winning streak.
If you know yourself at all you know this is true. How can you be surprised that some games people on your team are much worse than their rating and some game they are much better? Pretending that people play equally well all the time is just absurd. If you still really can't tell the difference between people having a bad game...and actual nub, terrible players then WATCH THE REPLAYS I POSTED.
And now for a REAL Wall of text. Let us consider that Niax game 182588756. This is a Normal Bracket match, probably near the top of Normal judging by the match history of Casual leading up to it.
In this game 3 players on both sides hide their stats...often this is a sign of bad players or smurfs, though it can simply be people who don't take the game seriously or on principle are private people who don't want anyone to know what they are doing.
Generally starting items show they all have experience playing dota and are going out with an actual plan for what they want to do in the laning stage. However, imo SB and wisps builds suck on the dire, and NP build on radient is also terrible. Even these 3 though did not simply take the recommended items, they picked something specific as if they are thinking about specific and somewhat reasonable possible laning scenarios.
Medusa Early game
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Medusa knows how to play medusa ancients, sort-of. Stacks correctly at first, Wards correctly for it... But does not get the most optimal item build for doing this and so is a lot slower farming them than she could be. She misses two stacks, gets the next one right, this is because her lack of Q-blade makes it very hard to do. At 5 min she is accidentally disrupted by SB who was charging top. Medusa does not start well because she did not know she needed q-blade to cut trees and kill the ancients faster.
Medusa 6-15 min
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Medusa feeds gryo mid at 7:45 by failing to correctly move-attack on a rocket. Gryo is able to dive the tower and kill her. At 9:19 she incorrectly attempts to TP out of certain death in the aftermath of a wisp gank on mid nearby. At 11 min Medusa is stalked by riki and then charged by SB. She needed sentries to anticipate this gank. At 13 min Medusa is out of position bot and dies to a solo gank by SB. At 15 min, Medusa saves WR from gyro rocket, first really positive contribution of the game.
Medusa 15 min to end
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Medusa realizes her crap farming start will not help and switches to thinking about teamfight and map awareness. 18 min she ports bot to help Niax who was 4 man ganked. Medusa stays with the team, stays back, helps the push and the next two teamfights, gets assists, 4 dire towers go down. Medusa helps pick off riki at 21 min. Her defensive positioning lets her avoid a wisp-riki gank at 23 min. Medusa pings a rosh attempt at 26 min, but Dire back off. Thinking its ok to farm, she walks out 600 units from T2 tower top, wisp-riki port in and instantly kill Medusa at 26:30. This leaves the dire team in a bad position however and they lose a teamfight mid and the T2 tower as a result. At 27 min Medusa picks up a ghost scepter to protect her from riki and SB ganks. She is planing to get Shadow blade next for an additional escape, but the game ends so she just finishes Eblade.
Overall this is Medusas 2nd game on the hero. She tries out ancient stacking and does it wrong. This leads to her only relevance being that she does not continue to feed like a moron and adjusts to play defensively.
Windrunner Early Game
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WR offlanes top, but fails to ward block the pulls. She correctly skills windrun and correctly uses it to evade a riki-wisp First Blood attempt. But the 2nd time she foolishly tries to kill riki and dies at 3 min. WR lasthitting is pretty good for an offlane. 3rd best in the game at 4 min. She does better on the 3rd gank attempt, but still dies way behind her tower on the dive. A late teleport from NP is really to blame.
Windrunner 6-15 min
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WR dies at 7 min to a well executed gank by SB and riki, really impossible to avoid without sentries.
But she takes the hardest lane by far and still has the #2 cs score. At 9:50 WR evades another wisp-SB-riki gank. WR spends the next few min roaming trying to stop ganks, but not succeeding since people die to fast. At 13 min WR hits 2 shackles and 3 powershots doing most of the dmg in the teamfight and killing Gyro, riki, and wisp. Niax and WR chase veno, but here WR fails shackle and powershot so they take too long to kill veno and WR dies when dire backup shows up. Finally at 15 min WR and Medusa defend top T2.
Windrunner 15 min to end
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At 18 min WR ports bot to help Niax who got 4 man ganked. Radient team wins the fight and pushes down the T2 bot. WR and Naix pick off Veno when he trys for the tower deny. At 19:40 WR goes for an invis rune so she is to far away to help with the gank on her team mid. But she is in position for a follow up gank at 20:10 and saves Naix. WR hits some nice powershots and shackles in the following teamfight at 21 min and picks off riki and SB. WR then buys a badly needed gem and thinks about going mech. At 22:30 WR wisely does not attack riki next to her with DD and just backs up. This keeps the gem in play and leads eventually to rikis death in the next gank at 23:30. WR then dewards taking away the vision Dire needs to gank effectively. At 26:30 Radient take advantage of a poor choice to gank Medusa and pick off wisp and veno taking the T2 tower mid. At 27 min zones out riki with the gem so they can get the T3 tower mid. SB charges but WR uses wind-run before riki can cloud so that Dire attempt to remove the gem from the fight fails. Then she shackles riki but qop is slow to target him and naix dives the base chasing SB so they all have to run away after Naix feeds. At 29:30 WR evades a wisp-gank. Radient team is close and they turn it around killing wisp, gyro, and riki despite riki having aegis and gyro bb to die again. WR hits 3 key shackles in the fight. They rax mid. Dire does a bad gank attempt at the T2 top that costs them the top rax and really the game. One final fight in the bot lane WR is focused down, but NP picks up the gem and its another easy win for Radient. Megas ftw at 35 min.
WR is a big factor in the win at all stages of the game. This is his #1 hero. But he is overall win-loss 35-45. He is playing far above his MMR this game because he is on windrunner.
QoP Early Game
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Qop buys chick, takes solo mid. Qop dramatically outplays gryo for First Blood and kills his courier as it delivers his bottle at 2:18. Gyro seemed to have no idea how to lane against a QoP. Veno comes to help mid, no one crows for qop so her bottle is late. Then next fight qop kills gryo but dies to rocket after. Qop trys to control runes, but doesnt get all like she should. She fails her combo in a countergank top at 7 min missing ult and forgetting to use shadow strike and then dives T1 top picks off wisp but gets stuck in cloud and feeds riki.
QoP 8-15 min
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Gets 4 man ganked mid because she lets a rocket hit her. This mistake leads to a death for medusa also.
At 10 min gets saved from a gank by WR. 11 min qop snipes wisp with sonic wave. 12 min QoP does a well executed gank on veno with Naix. 13 min QoP blinks into her death in a bad teamfight position trying to ks. She blinks into cloud. WR and Naix win the fight anyway. After these failures QoP stops trying to gank, and catches up with some flash farming to take the T1 towerbot. She then dodges a wisp-SB gank by blinking into the trees and porting out.
QoP 15 min to end
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QoP foolishly buys Travels and stays easy to burst down. 17 min QoP just barely ports out from a terrible position because of a mistake by wisp. 18 min QoP blinks in to ks Niax on a wisp kill. She then trys to ks the kill on gryo too but fails and a regular attack from WR takes it. At 19:30 qop is not so lucky staying way out alone on the opposite side of the map in mid lane with no mana...and feeds. Now qop gets ghost which could keep her alive much better, but her bad positioning still causes her to die in the fight at 21 min though she does manage to cast two spells first. 23 min QoP ports to help in the tower diving gank on WR and does ok. Helps to pick off riki, always forgets to use shadow strikes for some reason. 24 min does not die to wisp-riki gank because of ghost, forgets to use shadow strike again. QoP starts helping to ward the runes spots -- way to late but at least she is trying. QoP helps nuke down Veno and wisp and siege the dire base mid. In the critical moment QoP waits an extra 3 seconds doing nothing while riki is diabled, no attacks no spells...then wiffs sonic wave as riki blinks away. QoP was around the whole fight but probably did less than 200 hero dmg in a 15 second fight. 28 min qop snipes the invis rune and ports out. 29 min qop wanders up to buy a point booster making it impossible for her team to challenge the rosh. Riki gets aegis. 29:30 QoP wants to pressure top but ends up using the invis rune to escape from riki. 30 min qop blinks in to ks a kill on gyro. QoP misses Sonic wave again, but it doesnt matter because WR shackles are too good. Riki loses agies and dies again. Gyro bb and dies agin. QoP remembers to cast shadow strike. Riki buys back but cant do anything. Mid rax down, QoP ports top to keep up the pressure. 31 min qop panics and uses ghost when no one is attacking her but she still lives when Sb comes in because he got randomly blocked by a creep and could not finish her off. QoP helps siege top for the Rax and then ports back to base since she is oom. QoP now taunts in all chat as if she is not getting carried really hard. Final fight at 33:30 Dire clump up and set up a very easy combo in which QoP finally doesn't miss her Sonic Wave-scream combo. Easy fight. QoP keep taunting them in all chat.
Overall QoP sucked, possibly Radients worst player. Mostly she fed and ksed or tried to and failed.
QoP feeds one more time as the game ends. Her success was all accidental or trivial and her bad plays important and numerous. Qop plays a lot of this hero and badly, stats are hidden most likely because he is just a bad player and doesn't want to see them. Overall win-loss is 144-156.
NP early game
----------------------
NP starts with a very bad build, no consumables. He is extremely vulnerable to anything going wrong. He pulls bot camp without stacking it immediately causing Naix to lose lane control. Meanwhile he misses every last hit on the jungle creeps. At 1:40 he certainly should have died. I have no idea why veno and SB failed to kill him from that position...ok QoP is looking better. At 2 min he makes a failed attempt to jungle, but he does port out before he dies to veno. At 3 min he has walked back out and begins to jungle again. This time when veno ganks him he trys to farm the enemy large camp near the rune top with the typical extremely slow attack from high ground without treants method. NP manages to get to level 3 by 5 min when he ports into a terrible position and feeds riki. He respawns, ports badly again and a fairly low riki escapes having taken 1 attack of dmg.
NP 6 min - 15 min
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NP goes back to super slow farming from highground without treants. He afk farms until he gets to almost level 6...a courier flys over him and he stays another 30 sec anyway. Veno and SB nearly kill him, but he ports back to base just in time. He finally gets level 6 at 11 min and almost immediately ports in to feed riki again. At 12 min he goes back to farming but finally starts using treants, however he actually only has 1 point in treants so he runs out of them quickly and has to stop. Then at 13 min he comes mid to sprout an already shackled gyro and then stands there to die to call down and rocket barrage when shackle ends. Honestly Casual seems to be right in the case of this guy. He does not belong in this game. NP rez and immediately ports to a bad position top but at least hides and ports back after doing 1 cs. Then at 14:20 he ports into the enemy team and feeds SB again. NP rez since he is so low level at 14:51 and tries to siege mid. He is dead again by 15:11. At this point he is 1-5-2, but being NP is ahead of 3 players on gpm.
NP 15- min to end
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The continual parade of feeds slows as he starts to get points in treants so he can jungle normally and push near the safety of the team. He feeds at 17:53 porting into wisp-riki and SB somehow then pushes bot with the team. NP feeds in the jungle mid at 19:40 at this point just because riki-wisp can kill him any time they see him. He dies again at 21 min, but is near the team so they can retaliate. At 21:48 he rez and within seconds ports into riki-wisp again. Now he buys dagon and still has 853 hp and no escape move. 23:24 his first really helpful sprout blocks rikis retreat, but he forgets to use his new dagon, sprout is still level 1 so it doesnt do much, but it is enough for WR to get in position to shackle. At 25 min NP and others spot wisp placing wards to rosh and they go deward together for safety.
26:44 NP succeeds in ksing the wisp kill with his dagon when wisp had 139 hp. At 27:40 NP casts a terrible sprout that cuts his team off from Naix making any attempt to correct his dive impossible and preventing any chance of someone helping him. At 28 min NP dies trying to walk away from riki-wisp and does not use his ult or dagon, both of which were up the entire teamfight. At least his treants are now maxed and did help to siege the T3 tower. Also NP buys ghost, the first smart purchase he has made.
At 29 min riki-wisp are roshing. NP knows but does not try to send in treants to scout it. Next he does the first well timed split push at 30 min and puts some small pressure on the T2 top. At 30 min he fails ks on gyro, and panics wasting ghost scepter when SB has stopped attacking him, then he assists in the rest of the kills with right clicks. 31 min NP correctly ports top to keep up the pressure.
NP almost dies because he takes about 2 seconds to notice wisp and SB are attacking him. I mean 2 more sec after they actually arrive...finally clicks his ghost and lives. NP heals up, upgrades dagon and ports back top to push, then bot to push putting together a streak of over 7 min of not dieing. And in his best move yet he picks up WR gem and remembers to both use ult and dagon in the fight...however in the final fight as the throne dies he forgets to ult and barely uses dagon before he dies as the throne goes down because he didnt ult and dagon sooner to finish off the heroes killing his allies around him.
Casual is right NP really does not match the skill level of other players in the game. Although even he is way way better than the complete nubs in the replays I posted. I can only assume that he must be there to match the low MMR of someone in the other party.
Naix Early game
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Naix starts with probably the best possible items for what he is doing. We can immediately see he is a more advanced player since he is the only one on his team to check his allies items to see what they are able to do. Naix walks out into the lane and proves right away that he can use his q-blade, last hitting the first 4 creeps, 3 of them under the tower. He could perhaps improve by checking enemy items right away as well. Despite NP bad pull Niax lasthits the next 4 creeps under the tower also. Naix trys to block a little to fix the lane control NP destroyed. At 3 min Niax has phase and is doing very well because he is good at last hitting..and because veno has no idea what he is doing and does not kill Naix, does not even harass. Niax backs up and trys to block creeps back into a safer position showing he is aware of the danger veno should, in theory, present at early levels. SB and veno decide to try to gank bad players instead of try to lane against a good one so Naix gets total free farm for a few minutes.
Naix 6 - 15 min
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Veno actually gets plague wards and hides from Niax, wow he is bad. Niax scares veno off with an open wounds. And at 8 min solo kills veno under his tower because veno actually stops and moves foward a bit during open wounds to cast a ward letting naix get 2 more hits in than he should. Naix executes his combo well, but seriously it should not have worked. Naix now ports to base and picks up drums. I really like this race-car build on Naix, a smart choice, especially against a wisp team. A lot of ganks are going on during this next few min and Naix does not help much, but he farms efficiently and does help kill wisp once at 11 min, veno in his lane again at 12 min. After the veno kill Naix could have taken the T1 tower bot instead of going back to jungle. At 12:25 he checks rikis items good player always keep tabs on the enemy item progression. Naix plays the team fight at 13 min very well taking down riki, wisp, and veno with the help of WR. By 15 min he continues his race-car adding yasha and another 1k gold.
Naix 15 min to end
---------------------------------
Naix gets the T1 mid and rage-ports out as 5 enemies are closing in. Naix narrowly avoids a gank in the jungle at 16 min due to riki-wisp failing to execute their combo correctly. Naix finishes Sny, hopefully he will make that into a halberd later. At 17:30 wisp ports riki away from gyro and veno allowing Naix to pick off Veno and then wisp and gyro too when his team ports in to help. Riki survives because no one has true sight. Radient team continues on to take the T2 bot and kill veno again since he gets to close trying to deny. At 20 min naix is 4 man ganked and almost killed in his own jungle because there are no wards up, but he does some nice jukes for long enough that WR comes and saves him.
Niax keeps farming and at 23:30 after the kill on riki he picks up his reaver. I think he should have gone for AC next since he already got SnY. He finishes heart at 26 min. At 26:30 Niax and WR pick off veno and wisp, while NP kses. They get the T2 and move in on the T3 also. At 27:45 Naix dives in to far chasing SB and runs out of rage. Then he keeps fighting in T4 tower range 1 v 4 until he dies. I think he expected ppl to come in and help but probably didnt realize that NP blocked them out with sprout and QoP missed her ult so no help was coming. Its important to adjust when mistakes are made instead, but in the chaos of a teamfight it is difficult.
Naix comes back and starts his AC with a platemail. He executes and positions well in the fight at 30 min killing everyone and taking the raxes mid. Wins again top at 31 min, takes top raxes. Naix is totally unkillable at this point only terrible play could lose. But he does not take any bad risks until he has megas secured and ends up 10-2-11. I really like a carry who knows how to hit the rax and with the exception of the one dive after SB mid, this guy made killing buildings and winning the game a priority. Naix ends with a greedy foutain buy and dies 1 v 5, but it doesnt matter.
Overall Naix is certainly the best player on his team, although really Medusa is probably about as experienced and skilled a player. She just tried to play a hero she didnt know and failed hard. Windrunner is actually worse than Medusa at dota, but playing her #1 hero. QoP is pretty bad for this game, but can function. NP does not belong in the game. He clearly can't comprehend the map awareness required to not feed against this level of play.
Balance
--------------------
On the other team veno was also terrible, maybe not quite as bad as NP...but really veno failed at almost everything he did. He got a mech...but Wisp already had one. Veno kept obs wards up on the runes most of the game so he was not a total waste of space. NP was very bad and selfish, and stupid. But I think they must be similar MMR.
SB must have been matched to QoP. He was on an extremely easy hero and still played it badly against very easy gank targets. He charged just whenever he saw someone instead of picking a good path and timing so his team could support it. He got MoM making him very easy to kill when riki was the real dps and SB needed to tank. He failed to get bkb done in time since he went for aghs first...which never helped him at all because ganks were not frequent enough to use it and he never survived long enough to ult twice in a teamfight. Besides this SB used his ult badly...he used it when he didnt need it to get a kill and this prevented him from following up with a 2nd kill many times. Instead he just hit a hero once and immediately ulted them. SB needs to be ganking Naix instead of the feeders who were no real threat. SB ult and bashes was key to killing Naix and he failed to do his job and focus Naix.
Wisp was pretty good and probably plays with Riki. Riki was not that good at controlling his hero, got a stupid basher when he could have soloed Naix, or anyone if he got diffusal. Riki's item choice pretty much single handedly lost this game for his team. Wisp was mostly likely the high MMR matched to Naix.
Riki was probably matched to Medusa.
Gyro I think was matched to WR. Their play does not match because WR is on her #1 hero. But gyro showed about the same level of game knowledge, map awareness, good items choices, but low skill. Gyro mostly failed because of mistakes made by other people + he got a ton of focus from Riki and Wisp often moving out while he died. Gyro almost always hit his comboes, but he should have farmed instead of trying to follow every crazy gank and putting himself at risk.
----------------------------
Although a ton of things happened like every dota game there were 3 decisive factors in the game.
[1] most important Riki failed to get diffusal
[2] WR played her #1 hero, almost every important fight was won with a shackle shot or powershot
[3] Naix did a great job farming and SB and riki failed to focus him down in fights. So Naix had the power to take rax and then he actually did instead of stupidly foutain diving.
And its 3 people on either team that have not ACTIVATED (not hidden) their dotabuff account, there is a massive difference. Its not uncommon at all for there to be 3 players on each team who haven't activated stat sharing, your most recent game had 4 opponents who did not activate.
From the people who have activated, not including myself, they vary from 200-430 games and have 51.4%, 56.5% and 54.4% win rates. Not sure how exactly this is the normal bracket, but ok.
>general starting items show they have experience
Bullshit. Furion starting with QB + RoP + 3 branches is what people do now? I mean, ok there is going against the norm, but Quelling blade? That doesn't even begin to make sense. Not to mention he doesn't spawn treants at base (at the start) and pulls as well.
And something else that you forgot. He picked Medusa AFTER they had already chosen Wisp and Barathum. WHO DOES THAT? I mean ok sure, if the enemy had another 2 heroes in those slots, whatever, doing ancients can work. But it doesn't against a lineup that has Wisp and/or SB, they will kill you over and over while you can do nothing, and this is what happened. Its not a matter of playing correctly, its choosing a hero that will not work against heroes that have already been chosen, and after 430 games, he should know that, even if he had never played Medusa before he should know that. Why did I pick Naix? I picked Naix so that I couldn't get raped by SB solo, I could escape any relocate kill attempt, rage + TP = ??
And what about Furion? Did he pick the right hero for this match? Nope, but you would think at least he would then go for an appropriate build? Something like Lothars -> whatever, just to help him split push and avoid getting raped 24/7 by SB and relocate ganks. But nope, he goes for dagon first..
edit: now think about the variance in skill level between myself, WR and QoP [which wasn't massive], compared to both Medusa and Furion.
I'm sry you dont know how to ancient farm medusa either - and can't understand, or just failed at reading what I wrote about starting items. The q-blade is for Medusa. NP build was bad. I will finish the wall later since G-1 is starting.
Also its almost certainly in Normal, though it does not actually show up on my search so I guess its a private game. All the public games you played before and after it are Normal for a week. You do have a high game about once every two weeks, 5 total since February. So its probably near the top of Normal thought technically has no classification and this Normal/High/VeryHigh is of minimal importance.
I know that Medusa needs Q-blade you moron, where the hell did I say anything about Medusa? Yes I agree with you that Q-blade is shit on Furion, but my question is, how the hell is such a person in my game? I mean its not like its the next best option or something, in fact there are tons of legit builds for Furion, and he happened to play him in the worst possible way.
Fail trolling casual? Or do you just mistype and misread so badly? Its hard to tell. Reread what you and I wrote. Maybe you did not recognize that NP = Natures Prophet = Furion.
I still have no idea what you are talking about. I know that Medusa needs QB to do ancients, and I am aware that you said that QB was retarded on NP. But you seem to skip by that point as though it doesn't mean anything. And I'm pretty sure you do this all the time, you feel that by picking out the stupid shit that people have done, that it is somehow removed from my view on what the high bracket is, when in fact it is supporting my view that there are complete idiots playing in the high bracket.
Good now we are on the same page on that. The wall is not done. Have some patience. I want to determine for certain how much difference there really was in the skill of the players in the game and whether this was just due to playing heroes they are bad at or a failure of matching.
Simple question, help me with this please. I made a new account, slowly moved from normal to high bracket. Then, one game, I was in very high and won but next game I'm back to just high bracket. How?! I wasn't stacking with a friend... why did it move me back to high bracket?
This often happens because you are just matched to fit the game. Your MMR does go up when you win and down when you lose. But you need to be solidly in Very High to get there regularly. Matches have to deal with the players people choose to put on their teams.
Supposed 5 people que up together. 1 is Gold, 2 Platinum, 2 Diamond. They could easily go to Very High. Matching will select against them 5 people 1 Gold (lets say you), 2 Platinum, 2 Diamond. So even though you might be 4 wins short of Very High rating you are in the game against them. If you won that game and 3 more in a row, then you would start queing into Very High maybe half the time. If you kept winning you stay up high in MMR and mostly go to Very High games. If not MMR goes back down and usually you will que into HIgh games with the occasional Very High if you are close to the line.
"That being said, if the vast majority of your solo queue games are in Very High, then it’s likely that your personal rating is very close to the top 3% of the playerbase."
I know that u r not a very high skilled player if u got 1 or 2 games in the very high bracket (where u que with a VH skilled player)
I made my friends all to climb to H brackets, and they think its because they r getting better, and not because they r playing with me
Yeah I have plenty of Very High since I have so many games, but its maybe <5% of games. I really don't belong there. I should be near the top of High. On the other hand I've been playing with lower players and loseing games on heroes I don't know recently so I'm queing mostly into Normal these past couple weeks. These things can change in few games of win or loss streak.
I am actually really shocked, u missed some spelling right there
"and loseing games"
HOW THE HELL, RELENTLESS MISS SPELLING, THE WORLD WILL END !!
Don't think I am trying to bash u, no, but ur writings r really impressive, and I always try dig to get some mistake in ur writings, and I accomplished something here :D
Thanks, but its a bit artificially enhanced. Those edits you will see on pretty much everything I write - all almost always going back and proofreading it once quickly.
What are you talking about, murs and his gay friends were pretty active here few months ago O;
+ he was nr.1 ranked player by % for a while
+ him, kobocha, swiftending and Vaikiss were best players that ever posted here
If you want to escape the braindead range, try queuing CM only for a while. It gets rid of the moronic autoattackers, at least, and you can actually work your way up to a point where you get vaguely competent teams on a reliable basis.
@Iareyou, pretty sure kobocha is more active and is a lot better than both those guys. Murs was only top before anyone tried making a smurf account to get to top 50.
@Relentless, do you understand that individually matching players does not work in a game like Dota? Imagine if your lower ranked player was mid, while the opponent's was the offlane, and your best player was a hard support, while the enemy best player completely shat all over your mid player. You simply cannot have a large variance in player skill in dota, you need to all be around a similar bracket for it to make any sense at all, especially with hidden ratings, because you have absolutely no idea who your shit ally is until its already too late.
@op
you just need to demonstrate exceptional skill for 30 or 40 so wins. i suggest you gather a group of strong people and play together. if you guys saw my posts before, you know that i was once in the trash pool. but now im back up, in the higher brackets. solo queuing has never been so satisfying.
if you're playing in sea region, you can partner me up. i have a few really strong pals and we can work our way up , not by making smurfs. imho smurfs are pathetic way of getting back up.
another note, once you're back up, dont ever sink back down. no matter what happens , never lose 0/15/0.
deaths must be lower than assists. that way u can maintain your position on the higher brackets.
another word of advice, if you are already losing, try not to collect too many deaths. stay passive and dont die until the game ends.
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=29937 340 pages whine starts at page 40+
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=70618 30pages
http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=10878 168pages this one was one of first mm threads started in 2011
official mm thread on playdota http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1125953 54 pages
i wont even bother posting one sided mm threads that had around 200pages
+ tons of other smaller mm threads, tests with smurfs and so on cuz they all got closed after few pages
go educate yourself u scumbag zzzzz
@kill me
ignore him. he's just glorifying himself. let him, he told me i would not want to mess with his qop at mid. oooh so scary, watching his previous qop gameplays, hes bad at last hitting and denies.
i'd win him with a magnus anytime at mid.
oh did i mention hes afraid to accept my friend request and play a few rounds? im referring to swordie btw
and as for zzzz, drow picker. nuff said
that's simple
find a friend with very high level and let him find game
it will get you to higher lvl brackets= higher skill
I will explain.
If you cant find your hero, you are in normal bracket by Valve thinking.
If you can find a hero and creeps to autoattack - then you are high.
If you can do something more than this - you are very high player.
PS Its not a joke, actually players in normal bracket autoattack creeps sometimes.
...and back to reality
Normal bracket ranges from total nubs who have never played to players who have played 1000 games but have slow fingers, or don't make any serious effort to break nub habits, or only play solo and are just average players...However depending on who ques together actual pro players sometimes are put in normal, and also anyone who happens to be on a losing streak.
(at any given time 85% of players solo que into Normal)
High bracket players know basically how all heroes function, try to control the lane, try to ward (maybe deward), try to play hero roles, have above average hero control, the weaker 5 stacks tend to end up in High.
(at any given time 10% of players solo que into High)
Very High bracket games include an odd mix of the following --- 5 stack tryhard players --- very talented morons who cs extremely well, but feed --- random nubs who got qued into Very High for a couple games with a friend --- solid groups of 2,3, or 4 experienced highly skilled players...above that 5 stacks of very talented, experienced players who actually play together on a team....and on the very top pro players and pro player aliases carrying a few good pub players with them to beat the typical 5 stacks, usually streaming the game as well...extremely rarely 5 v 5 pro team games that will get several thousand observers.
(at any time 5% of players solo que into Very High)
Very broadly speaking better players and more coordinated play will be found in the High and Very High bracket, but you if don't really carry your MMR you will lose games and get knocked back down. So even if you get carried into Very High, you can't stay there if you don't deserve it.
Suppose I have 5% of my games in Very High, 75% in High, and 20% in Normal. I don't really belong in Very High though from time to time I get placed there. But once there I will lose in a game or two and get knocked back into High. If I choose to practice heroes I am bad at while solo queing for a dozen games or so I will lose enough MMR to go back all the way to Normal. If I pick my best heroes again I will go back up to High in a few games and with a bit of stacking back into Very High.
The point is if you want to play at the highest MMR you can reach you will have to limit your hero choices to a few of the best and try your best to win every game. If you are a bit less considered about what bracket you are in you will be able to try more things and have more fun in my opinion.
How do you know what rating you are?
"High bracket players know basically how all heroes function, try to control the lane, try to ward (maybe deward), try to play hero roles, have above average hero control, the weaker 5 stacks tend to end up in High."
Lolwhat? Have you ever played dota 2?
The short answer is: you don't know what rating you are. Partially you don't know because it is hidden. Partially you don't know because it changes every game from your previous wins/losses. As I was explaining - the same player can and often does have a very different MMR over the course of a dozen games depending on whether you happen to win or lose.
It really should not be as volatile as it is in my opinion. But there is a trade-off in a TSR based system where you have more stable ratings and the system is vunerable to exploitation by smurfs or you quickly get smurfs up to high ratings negating most of their impact, but you get people tending to swing back and forth on win and loss streaks because their MMR is more unstable.
Clearly Valve has it set up to change MMR fairly quickly to keep smurfing to a minimum. I would prefer that smurfs were allowed to get away with a bit more and everyone's ratings were more stable.
in after Relentless
and lol at this
"High bracket players know basically how all heroes function, try to control the lane, try to ward (maybe deward), try to play hero roles, have above average hero control, the weaker 5 stacks tend to end up in High."
"High bracket players know basically how all heroes function, try to control the lane, try to ward (maybe deward),"
Dont get if troll or...
"High bracket players know basically how all heroes function, try to control the lane, try to ward (maybe deward), try to play hero roles, have above average hero control, the weaker 5 stacks tend to end up in High."
lol'd
http://dotabuff.com/matches/182588756
Let's see what happens in this game.
1. During the picks, purple calls solo mid. Ok, whatever. He then RANDOMS, you heard right, he RANDOMS after calling solo mid, and gets shadow shaman. I ask him why he calls mid if he is going to then random. He just repicks into QoP, whatever..
2. The enemy have picked Spirit Breaker, and I believe Wisp as well by now. So who do my allies pick? They pick fucking Medusa and Furion. The two WORST possible heroes you can pick in this situation. Medusa tries to do ancients and gets raped multiple times by SB, and eventually does nothing in the game. Furion gets raped constantly too, and instead of buying something useful, maybe to help him split push or survive a few ganks, he goes for Dagon, which was very, very late as you can imagine. I should also mention that he doesn't know how to jungle (he started with QB..).
That apparently are the kinds of players allowed in the "high bracket"
Now compare that to the game before, which mind you we got quite lucky with our heroes (it was AR).
http://dotabuff.com/matches/182554723
I play a shit Huskar (never played him before in DotA2, not even against bots), but we manage to rape the enemy. KOTL wards 24/7. Quite a contrast to the match before, no?
Anyways im off, pool are up 2-0 in 20 minutes without our main forward, shit is getting real
Can't tell the difference between half the games in the normal and high bracket, heck even the VH bracket (even at the lower level of VH you do expect a little better) you get 1-2 retards every time.
I cant but feel that Relentless is learning how the things are in dota 2 not from the game itself, but from some theoretic books or something like that, cuz almost everything he says can be right in reality but actually is not.
Its a simple matter of my objective view compared to the extreme pessimism displayed by mockers and whiners.
Any of the skill brackets will have some terrible players, as I have said myself many times. However, in general Very High will be stronger players than High which will be stronger than Normal. High and Very High almost never have people who are actually new to dota. Yes, I know you think you see bad players in High or even Very High games...but what you really see are people who happen to be on a hero they don't play well, having a bad start, and then snowballing into more failure.
These are lower Normal skill bracket games. You never see anything like this. Never.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOmcaqEqyYo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6KzCyUHF4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-DHZG5u0ak
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cMSpmWpDFw
The people you think are terrible feeder morons...would be godlike in these games.
"I cant but feel that Relentless is learning how the things are in dota 2 not from the game itself, but from some theoretic books or something like that, cuz almost everything he says can be right in reality but actually is not."
This is pretty much it. Ideally what you are saying is right, but its not what we are experiencing in many, many games. The variance in skill level from game to game makes no sense.
It makes no sense?...really?
http://dotabuff.com/matches/168243373 here you are 1-6-1 with kunka, your team had 10 kills but apparently you could not even do an autoattack on a nearby creep to get an assist with tidebringer
http://dotabuff.com/matches/168253398 the very next game you are 16-0-7 on luna in only 20 minutes! Is this the same player? "the variance in skill level from game to game makes no sense"? what?
You pretend to not know your own reality. You have vastly different levels of skill from hero to hero and game to game...as does everyone. It should not surprise you that the same is true for other people.
Sometimes people play a hero very well or badly. They come into the game with the same MMR both ways. Complaining about or even being surprised by this natural variability...um you guys are the ones who are thinking only about an imaginary, theoretical world where people have consistent play from game to game and hero to hero.
If you would learn to correctly judge skill from play you would be able to see that the difference between the best and worst players in your games are not that large. Matchmaking is close enough that either team could win. If they played 10 games it would probably be 5 to 5. But since only one game is played you whine about the half of the games when you happen to lose and forget about the ones you win. You complain about the games where someone else feeds, but forget the ones where you feed.
Similarly for "lie to me agen fagt" he knows how to win with tiny and is 24-7 win/loss. But he does not have anywhere near the same skill on tinker and is 4-16 win/loss. If he picks tiny he is very likely to play well and win. If he plays tinker, he is just as likely to play badly and lose.
Hey Relentless, can you analyze me too? this sounds fun!
^ Relentless, this is true, I'm a pretty bad tinker.
But I have bad w/l ratio on some heroes I play really good as well, this tinker thing is just exception from the rules than a proof actually.
Prior to my experience of about 200 odd games in dota, I have come to conclude that games on the higher end of the spectrum usually have the tendency to have extremely low kill and death rates but extremely high creep kills. On the flip side, games on the lower end of the spectrum have a very very high kill and death rates . With that being said, I have never come across a game where creep scores were high and kill scores are low . My longest streak being 9 games( though not proud of it because I used drow ranger). Pub games generally worked fairly well for me , however everytime i get around a 5 to 6 win streak I seem to realise that my teamates become marginally less capable than the oppossing side . Can anyone look into my profile and take a look at where I fall short ? Or am I just a plain old noob
@Relentless go ahead and watch those 2 games.
In the match with Kunkka 3 of us gave up after the first minute. Why? We had arranged a dual top (me and lich), furion in the jungle and pudge mid. We have all moved to our lane, and tell Tao to pick an offlane hero. You want to know what he did? He picks Void, and without saying a word the entire game, he moves to our safelane, despite everyone else on our team telling him to get fucked. He clearly has no idea what he is doing, I wasn't even farming at all for the majority of the game (just waiting around and telling the enemies to end, and this guy still has lower CS than me, that's to give you an idea of this guy's skill. So why did I give up so early? Because he was in my match before, and did a very similar thing. He went to the offlane, and within a minute he decides to join me at mid lane, for no reason at all, and didn't even say a word. I tell him to fuck off for about 5 minutes, and eventually he goes top where our tri-lane is. So what does he do? Does he try and get a kill? Nope, he just sits their passively fucking up the lane even more. The majority of kills that we got were just pudge solo killing people, and in fact I was involved in a lot of fights, but we lost basically all of them, I mean when they have 2 people getting free farm and we have 1 moron on Void, it's to be expected. You can ask anyone else on my team about how hard we tried given how shit out lanes were, they won't say a thing. This wasn't a different level of skill with the hero, but you not having any idea of the context. I can play Kunkka just fine, just not when I don't have a lane to go to, despite having organised a dual lane and getting it taken by some retard that can't play the game at all nor communicate with anyone.
Do you really believe that the skill variance is not that large? So from a Dazzle who supports by pulling and stacking, buying the courier + bird + wards constantly, a KOTL who buys a bird from the start, pulls constantly and has wards up the entire game, to a Jakiro who contests last hits, no courier no wards (from him), no pulls, spams the chat saying he is the carry, builds EB first (and no it wasn't quick)...no variance?
Game #2, this Tao faggot contests my farm again, never pulls, throws his axes like 2cm away from his hero despite me telling him he can throw them at max range. Even at one point I got Sniper to low HP by myself, and well within Axes range, and he didn't even use his axes..despite having full mana. Retard enemise and a retard Tao.
I'm not even basing this on score or anything, just look at the way that these guys are playing.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/182588756
He picks a MEDUSA to fucking go ancients despite both Wisp and Barathum already being picked. It's just asking to get raped over, and over. The guy who picked Furion started off with QB + RoP + 3 branhes..and he pulled as well, forcing me to take last hits under the tower, making my HP low against a Barathum + Venomancer lane, which wasn't nice. Oh, and did I mention we didn't have a courier until like 15 minutes into the game? This is despite all 4 of my allies feeding and achieving nothing. So what does Furion do to avoid getting raped constantly. He tries to build dagon..yeah, great item choice, lets him split push so well, lets him take on a charging bara so well. Medusa would keep going ancients and wouldn't even respond when Barathum was charging her (and we had quite a bit of vision as well..)
I've had a negative KD in 4 of my last 20 matches..
...? what are you talking about?
This is about the simple fact that you are far better at some heroes than others. When you play the worst ones you can't hold your MMR, you are overated unless you are already on a big losing streak. When you play the best ones you are underrated unless you are already on a big winning streak.
If you know yourself at all you know this is true. How can you be surprised that some games people on your team are much worse than their rating and some game they are much better? Pretending that people play equally well all the time is just absurd. If you still really can't tell the difference between people having a bad game...and actual nub, terrible players then WATCH THE REPLAYS I POSTED.
WATCH THIS ONE. DO IT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOmcaqEqyYo
These are REAL bad players, not just people having a bad game. See the difference?
And now for a REAL Wall of text. Let us consider that Niax game 182588756. This is a Normal Bracket match, probably near the top of Normal judging by the match history of Casual leading up to it.
In this game 3 players on both sides hide their stats...often this is a sign of bad players or smurfs, though it can simply be people who don't take the game seriously or on principle are private people who don't want anyone to know what they are doing.
Generally starting items show they all have experience playing dota and are going out with an actual plan for what they want to do in the laning stage. However, imo SB and wisps builds suck on the dire, and NP build on radient is also terrible. Even these 3 though did not simply take the recommended items, they picked something specific as if they are thinking about specific and somewhat reasonable possible laning scenarios.
Medusa Early game
-----------------------------------
Medusa knows how to play medusa ancients, sort-of. Stacks correctly at first, Wards correctly for it... But does not get the most optimal item build for doing this and so is a lot slower farming them than she could be. She misses two stacks, gets the next one right, this is because her lack of Q-blade makes it very hard to do. At 5 min she is accidentally disrupted by SB who was charging top. Medusa does not start well because she did not know she needed q-blade to cut trees and kill the ancients faster.
Medusa 6-15 min
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medusa feeds gryo mid at 7:45 by failing to correctly move-attack on a rocket. Gryo is able to dive the tower and kill her. At 9:19 she incorrectly attempts to TP out of certain death in the aftermath of a wisp gank on mid nearby. At 11 min Medusa is stalked by riki and then charged by SB. She needed sentries to anticipate this gank. At 13 min Medusa is out of position bot and dies to a solo gank by SB. At 15 min, Medusa saves WR from gyro rocket, first really positive contribution of the game.
Medusa 15 min to end
----------------------------------------
Medusa realizes her crap farming start will not help and switches to thinking about teamfight and map awareness. 18 min she ports bot to help Niax who was 4 man ganked. Medusa stays with the team, stays back, helps the push and the next two teamfights, gets assists, 4 dire towers go down. Medusa helps pick off riki at 21 min. Her defensive positioning lets her avoid a wisp-riki gank at 23 min. Medusa pings a rosh attempt at 26 min, but Dire back off. Thinking its ok to farm, she walks out 600 units from T2 tower top, wisp-riki port in and instantly kill Medusa at 26:30. This leaves the dire team in a bad position however and they lose a teamfight mid and the T2 tower as a result. At 27 min Medusa picks up a ghost scepter to protect her from riki and SB ganks. She is planing to get Shadow blade next for an additional escape, but the game ends so she just finishes Eblade.
Overall this is Medusas 2nd game on the hero. She tries out ancient stacking and does it wrong. This leads to her only relevance being that she does not continue to feed like a moron and adjusts to play defensively.
Windrunner Early Game
------------------------------------------
WR offlanes top, but fails to ward block the pulls. She correctly skills windrun and correctly uses it to evade a riki-wisp First Blood attempt. But the 2nd time she foolishly tries to kill riki and dies at 3 min. WR lasthitting is pretty good for an offlane. 3rd best in the game at 4 min. She does better on the 3rd gank attempt, but still dies way behind her tower on the dive. A late teleport from NP is really to blame.
Windrunner 6-15 min
---------------------------
WR dies at 7 min to a well executed gank by SB and riki, really impossible to avoid without sentries.
But she takes the hardest lane by far and still has the #2 cs score. At 9:50 WR evades another wisp-SB-riki gank. WR spends the next few min roaming trying to stop ganks, but not succeeding since people die to fast. At 13 min WR hits 2 shackles and 3 powershots doing most of the dmg in the teamfight and killing Gyro, riki, and wisp. Niax and WR chase veno, but here WR fails shackle and powershot so they take too long to kill veno and WR dies when dire backup shows up. Finally at 15 min WR and Medusa defend top T2.
Windrunner 15 min to end
-------------------------------
At 18 min WR ports bot to help Niax who got 4 man ganked. Radient team wins the fight and pushes down the T2 bot. WR and Naix pick off Veno when he trys for the tower deny. At 19:40 WR goes for an invis rune so she is to far away to help with the gank on her team mid. But she is in position for a follow up gank at 20:10 and saves Naix. WR hits some nice powershots and shackles in the following teamfight at 21 min and picks off riki and SB. WR then buys a badly needed gem and thinks about going mech. At 22:30 WR wisely does not attack riki next to her with DD and just backs up. This keeps the gem in play and leads eventually to rikis death in the next gank at 23:30. WR then dewards taking away the vision Dire needs to gank effectively. At 26:30 Radient take advantage of a poor choice to gank Medusa and pick off wisp and veno taking the T2 tower mid. At 27 min zones out riki with the gem so they can get the T3 tower mid. SB charges but WR uses wind-run before riki can cloud so that Dire attempt to remove the gem from the fight fails. Then she shackles riki but qop is slow to target him and naix dives the base chasing SB so they all have to run away after Naix feeds. At 29:30 WR evades a wisp-gank. Radient team is close and they turn it around killing wisp, gyro, and riki despite riki having aegis and gyro bb to die again. WR hits 3 key shackles in the fight. They rax mid. Dire does a bad gank attempt at the T2 top that costs them the top rax and really the game. One final fight in the bot lane WR is focused down, but NP picks up the gem and its another easy win for Radient. Megas ftw at 35 min.
WR is a big factor in the win at all stages of the game. This is his #1 hero. But he is overall win-loss 35-45. He is playing far above his MMR this game because he is on windrunner.
QoP Early Game
-----------------------------
Qop buys chick, takes solo mid. Qop dramatically outplays gryo for First Blood and kills his courier as it delivers his bottle at 2:18. Gyro seemed to have no idea how to lane against a QoP. Veno comes to help mid, no one crows for qop so her bottle is late. Then next fight qop kills gryo but dies to rocket after. Qop trys to control runes, but doesnt get all like she should. She fails her combo in a countergank top at 7 min missing ult and forgetting to use shadow strike and then dives T1 top picks off wisp but gets stuck in cloud and feeds riki.
QoP 8-15 min
------------------------------
Gets 4 man ganked mid because she lets a rocket hit her. This mistake leads to a death for medusa also.
At 10 min gets saved from a gank by WR. 11 min qop snipes wisp with sonic wave. 12 min QoP does a well executed gank on veno with Naix. 13 min QoP blinks into her death in a bad teamfight position trying to ks. She blinks into cloud. WR and Naix win the fight anyway. After these failures QoP stops trying to gank, and catches up with some flash farming to take the T1 towerbot. She then dodges a wisp-SB gank by blinking into the trees and porting out.
QoP 15 min to end
-------------------------------
QoP foolishly buys Travels and stays easy to burst down. 17 min QoP just barely ports out from a terrible position because of a mistake by wisp. 18 min QoP blinks in to ks Niax on a wisp kill. She then trys to ks the kill on gryo too but fails and a regular attack from WR takes it. At 19:30 qop is not so lucky staying way out alone on the opposite side of the map in mid lane with no mana...and feeds. Now qop gets ghost which could keep her alive much better, but her bad positioning still causes her to die in the fight at 21 min though she does manage to cast two spells first. 23 min QoP ports to help in the tower diving gank on WR and does ok. Helps to pick off riki, always forgets to use shadow strikes for some reason. 24 min does not die to wisp-riki gank because of ghost, forgets to use shadow strike again. QoP starts helping to ward the runes spots -- way to late but at least she is trying. QoP helps nuke down Veno and wisp and siege the dire base mid. In the critical moment QoP waits an extra 3 seconds doing nothing while riki is diabled, no attacks no spells...then wiffs sonic wave as riki blinks away. QoP was around the whole fight but probably did less than 200 hero dmg in a 15 second fight. 28 min qop snipes the invis rune and ports out. 29 min qop wanders up to buy a point booster making it impossible for her team to challenge the rosh. Riki gets aegis. 29:30 QoP wants to pressure top but ends up using the invis rune to escape from riki. 30 min qop blinks in to ks a kill on gyro. QoP misses Sonic wave again, but it doesnt matter because WR shackles are too good. Riki loses agies and dies again. Gyro bb and dies agin. QoP remembers to cast shadow strike. Riki buys back but cant do anything. Mid rax down, QoP ports top to keep up the pressure. 31 min qop panics and uses ghost when no one is attacking her but she still lives when Sb comes in because he got randomly blocked by a creep and could not finish her off. QoP helps siege top for the Rax and then ports back to base since she is oom. QoP now taunts in all chat as if she is not getting carried really hard. Final fight at 33:30 Dire clump up and set up a very easy combo in which QoP finally doesn't miss her Sonic Wave-scream combo. Easy fight. QoP keep taunting them in all chat.
Overall QoP sucked, possibly Radients worst player. Mostly she fed and ksed or tried to and failed.
QoP feeds one more time as the game ends. Her success was all accidental or trivial and her bad plays important and numerous. Qop plays a lot of this hero and badly, stats are hidden most likely because he is just a bad player and doesn't want to see them. Overall win-loss is 144-156.
NP early game
----------------------
NP starts with a very bad build, no consumables. He is extremely vulnerable to anything going wrong. He pulls bot camp without stacking it immediately causing Naix to lose lane control. Meanwhile he misses every last hit on the jungle creeps. At 1:40 he certainly should have died. I have no idea why veno and SB failed to kill him from that position...ok QoP is looking better. At 2 min he makes a failed attempt to jungle, but he does port out before he dies to veno. At 3 min he has walked back out and begins to jungle again. This time when veno ganks him he trys to farm the enemy large camp near the rune top with the typical extremely slow attack from high ground without treants method. NP manages to get to level 3 by 5 min when he ports into a terrible position and feeds riki. He respawns, ports badly again and a fairly low riki escapes having taken 1 attack of dmg.
NP 6 min - 15 min
---------------------------
NP goes back to super slow farming from highground without treants. He afk farms until he gets to almost level 6...a courier flys over him and he stays another 30 sec anyway. Veno and SB nearly kill him, but he ports back to base just in time. He finally gets level 6 at 11 min and almost immediately ports in to feed riki again. At 12 min he goes back to farming but finally starts using treants, however he actually only has 1 point in treants so he runs out of them quickly and has to stop. Then at 13 min he comes mid to sprout an already shackled gyro and then stands there to die to call down and rocket barrage when shackle ends. Honestly Casual seems to be right in the case of this guy. He does not belong in this game. NP rez and immediately ports to a bad position top but at least hides and ports back after doing 1 cs. Then at 14:20 he ports into the enemy team and feeds SB again. NP rez since he is so low level at 14:51 and tries to siege mid. He is dead again by 15:11. At this point he is 1-5-2, but being NP is ahead of 3 players on gpm.
NP 15- min to end
-------------------------
The continual parade of feeds slows as he starts to get points in treants so he can jungle normally and push near the safety of the team. He feeds at 17:53 porting into wisp-riki and SB somehow then pushes bot with the team. NP feeds in the jungle mid at 19:40 at this point just because riki-wisp can kill him any time they see him. He dies again at 21 min, but is near the team so they can retaliate. At 21:48 he rez and within seconds ports into riki-wisp again. Now he buys dagon and still has 853 hp and no escape move. 23:24 his first really helpful sprout blocks rikis retreat, but he forgets to use his new dagon, sprout is still level 1 so it doesnt do much, but it is enough for WR to get in position to shackle. At 25 min NP and others spot wisp placing wards to rosh and they go deward together for safety.
26:44 NP succeeds in ksing the wisp kill with his dagon when wisp had 139 hp. At 27:40 NP casts a terrible sprout that cuts his team off from Naix making any attempt to correct his dive impossible and preventing any chance of someone helping him. At 28 min NP dies trying to walk away from riki-wisp and does not use his ult or dagon, both of which were up the entire teamfight. At least his treants are now maxed and did help to siege the T3 tower. Also NP buys ghost, the first smart purchase he has made.
At 29 min riki-wisp are roshing. NP knows but does not try to send in treants to scout it. Next he does the first well timed split push at 30 min and puts some small pressure on the T2 top. At 30 min he fails ks on gyro, and panics wasting ghost scepter when SB has stopped attacking him, then he assists in the rest of the kills with right clicks. 31 min NP correctly ports top to keep up the pressure.
NP almost dies because he takes about 2 seconds to notice wisp and SB are attacking him. I mean 2 more sec after they actually arrive...finally clicks his ghost and lives. NP heals up, upgrades dagon and ports back top to push, then bot to push putting together a streak of over 7 min of not dieing. And in his best move yet he picks up WR gem and remembers to both use ult and dagon in the fight...however in the final fight as the throne dies he forgets to ult and barely uses dagon before he dies as the throne goes down because he didnt ult and dagon sooner to finish off the heroes killing his allies around him.
Casual is right NP really does not match the skill level of other players in the game. Although even he is way way better than the complete nubs in the replays I posted. I can only assume that he must be there to match the low MMR of someone in the other party.
Naix Early game
-----------------------------
Naix starts with probably the best possible items for what he is doing. We can immediately see he is a more advanced player since he is the only one on his team to check his allies items to see what they are able to do. Naix walks out into the lane and proves right away that he can use his q-blade, last hitting the first 4 creeps, 3 of them under the tower. He could perhaps improve by checking enemy items right away as well. Despite NP bad pull Niax lasthits the next 4 creeps under the tower also. Naix trys to block a little to fix the lane control NP destroyed. At 3 min Niax has phase and is doing very well because he is good at last hitting..and because veno has no idea what he is doing and does not kill Naix, does not even harass. Niax backs up and trys to block creeps back into a safer position showing he is aware of the danger veno should, in theory, present at early levels. SB and veno decide to try to gank bad players instead of try to lane against a good one so Naix gets total free farm for a few minutes.
Naix 6 - 15 min
----------------------------
Veno actually gets plague wards and hides from Niax, wow he is bad. Niax scares veno off with an open wounds. And at 8 min solo kills veno under his tower because veno actually stops and moves foward a bit during open wounds to cast a ward letting naix get 2 more hits in than he should. Naix executes his combo well, but seriously it should not have worked. Naix now ports to base and picks up drums. I really like this race-car build on Naix, a smart choice, especially against a wisp team. A lot of ganks are going on during this next few min and Naix does not help much, but he farms efficiently and does help kill wisp once at 11 min, veno in his lane again at 12 min. After the veno kill Naix could have taken the T1 tower bot instead of going back to jungle. At 12:25 he checks rikis items good player always keep tabs on the enemy item progression. Naix plays the team fight at 13 min very well taking down riki, wisp, and veno with the help of WR. By 15 min he continues his race-car adding yasha and another 1k gold.
Naix 15 min to end
---------------------------------
Naix gets the T1 mid and rage-ports out as 5 enemies are closing in. Naix narrowly avoids a gank in the jungle at 16 min due to riki-wisp failing to execute their combo correctly. Naix finishes Sny, hopefully he will make that into a halberd later. At 17:30 wisp ports riki away from gyro and veno allowing Naix to pick off Veno and then wisp and gyro too when his team ports in to help. Riki survives because no one has true sight. Radient team continues on to take the T2 bot and kill veno again since he gets to close trying to deny. At 20 min naix is 4 man ganked and almost killed in his own jungle because there are no wards up, but he does some nice jukes for long enough that WR comes and saves him.
Niax keeps farming and at 23:30 after the kill on riki he picks up his reaver. I think he should have gone for AC next since he already got SnY. He finishes heart at 26 min. At 26:30 Niax and WR pick off veno and wisp, while NP kses. They get the T2 and move in on the T3 also. At 27:45 Naix dives in to far chasing SB and runs out of rage. Then he keeps fighting in T4 tower range 1 v 4 until he dies. I think he expected ppl to come in and help but probably didnt realize that NP blocked them out with sprout and QoP missed her ult so no help was coming. Its important to adjust when mistakes are made instead, but in the chaos of a teamfight it is difficult.
Naix comes back and starts his AC with a platemail. He executes and positions well in the fight at 30 min killing everyone and taking the raxes mid. Wins again top at 31 min, takes top raxes. Naix is totally unkillable at this point only terrible play could lose. But he does not take any bad risks until he has megas secured and ends up 10-2-11. I really like a carry who knows how to hit the rax and with the exception of the one dive after SB mid, this guy made killing buildings and winning the game a priority. Naix ends with a greedy foutain buy and dies 1 v 5, but it doesnt matter.
Overall Naix is certainly the best player on his team, although really Medusa is probably about as experienced and skilled a player. She just tried to play a hero she didnt know and failed hard. Windrunner is actually worse than Medusa at dota, but playing her #1 hero. QoP is pretty bad for this game, but can function. NP does not belong in the game. He clearly can't comprehend the map awareness required to not feed against this level of play.
Balance
--------------------
On the other team veno was also terrible, maybe not quite as bad as NP...but really veno failed at almost everything he did. He got a mech...but Wisp already had one. Veno kept obs wards up on the runes most of the game so he was not a total waste of space. NP was very bad and selfish, and stupid. But I think they must be similar MMR.
SB must have been matched to QoP. He was on an extremely easy hero and still played it badly against very easy gank targets. He charged just whenever he saw someone instead of picking a good path and timing so his team could support it. He got MoM making him very easy to kill when riki was the real dps and SB needed to tank. He failed to get bkb done in time since he went for aghs first...which never helped him at all because ganks were not frequent enough to use it and he never survived long enough to ult twice in a teamfight. Besides this SB used his ult badly...he used it when he didnt need it to get a kill and this prevented him from following up with a 2nd kill many times. Instead he just hit a hero once and immediately ulted them. SB needs to be ganking Naix instead of the feeders who were no real threat. SB ult and bashes was key to killing Naix and he failed to do his job and focus Naix.
Wisp was pretty good and probably plays with Riki. Riki was not that good at controlling his hero, got a stupid basher when he could have soloed Naix, or anyone if he got diffusal. Riki's item choice pretty much single handedly lost this game for his team. Wisp was mostly likely the high MMR matched to Naix.
Riki was probably matched to Medusa.
Gyro I think was matched to WR. Their play does not match because WR is on her #1 hero. But gyro showed about the same level of game knowledge, map awareness, good items choices, but low skill. Gyro mostly failed because of mistakes made by other people + he got a ton of focus from Riki and Wisp often moving out while he died. Gyro almost always hit his comboes, but he should have farmed instead of trying to follow every crazy gank and putting himself at risk.
----------------------------
Although a ton of things happened like every dota game there were 3 decisive factors in the game.
[1] most important Riki failed to get diffusal
[2] WR played her #1 hero, almost every important fight was won with a shackle shot or powershot
[3] Naix did a great job farming and SB and riki failed to focus him down in fights. So Naix had the power to take rax and then he actually did instead of stupidly foutain diving.
It was in the High bracket.
And its 3 people on either team that have not ACTIVATED (not hidden) their dotabuff account, there is a massive difference. Its not uncommon at all for there to be 3 players on each team who haven't activated stat sharing, your most recent game had 4 opponents who did not activate.
From the people who have activated, not including myself, they vary from 200-430 games and have 51.4%, 56.5% and 54.4% win rates. Not sure how exactly this is the normal bracket, but ok.
>general starting items show they have experience
Bullshit. Furion starting with QB + RoP + 3 branches is what people do now? I mean, ok there is going against the norm, but Quelling blade? That doesn't even begin to make sense. Not to mention he doesn't spawn treants at base (at the start) and pulls as well.
And something else that you forgot. He picked Medusa AFTER they had already chosen Wisp and Barathum. WHO DOES THAT? I mean ok sure, if the enemy had another 2 heroes in those slots, whatever, doing ancients can work. But it doesn't against a lineup that has Wisp and/or SB, they will kill you over and over while you can do nothing, and this is what happened. Its not a matter of playing correctly, its choosing a hero that will not work against heroes that have already been chosen, and after 430 games, he should know that, even if he had never played Medusa before he should know that. Why did I pick Naix? I picked Naix so that I couldn't get raped by SB solo, I could escape any relocate kill attempt, rage + TP = ??
And what about Furion? Did he pick the right hero for this match? Nope, but you would think at least he would then go for an appropriate build? Something like Lothars -> whatever, just to help him split push and avoid getting raped 24/7 by SB and relocate ganks. But nope, he goes for dagon first..
edit: now think about the variance in skill level between myself, WR and QoP [which wasn't massive], compared to both Medusa and Furion.
I'm sry you dont know how to ancient farm medusa either - and can't understand, or just failed at reading what I wrote about starting items. The q-blade is for Medusa. NP build was bad. I will finish the wall later since G-1 is starting.
Also its almost certainly in Normal, though it does not actually show up on my search so I guess its a private game. All the public games you played before and after it are Normal for a week. You do have a high game about once every two weeks, 5 total since February. So its probably near the top of Normal thought technically has no classification and this Normal/High/VeryHigh is of minimal importance.
I know that Medusa needs Q-blade you moron, where the hell did I say anything about Medusa? Yes I agree with you that Q-blade is shit on Furion, but my question is, how the hell is such a person in my game? I mean its not like its the next best option or something, in fact there are tons of legit builds for Furion, and he happened to play him in the worst possible way.
Fail trolling casual? Or do you just mistype and misread so badly? Its hard to tell. Reread what you and I wrote. Maybe you did not recognize that NP = Natures Prophet = Furion.
I still have no idea what you are talking about. I know that Medusa needs QB to do ancients, and I am aware that you said that QB was retarded on NP. But you seem to skip by that point as though it doesn't mean anything. And I'm pretty sure you do this all the time, you feel that by picking out the stupid shit that people have done, that it is somehow removed from my view on what the high bracket is, when in fact it is supporting my view that there are complete idiots playing in the high bracket.
Good now we are on the same page on that. The wall is not done. Have some patience. I want to determine for certain how much difference there really was in the skill of the players in the game and whether this was just due to playing heroes they are bad at or a failure of matching.
Simple question, help me with this please. I made a new account, slowly moved from normal to high bracket. Then, one game, I was in very high and won but next game I'm back to just high bracket. How?! I wasn't stacking with a friend... why did it move me back to high bracket?
^ http://dotametrics.wordpress.com/2012/12/02/an-extremely-unofficial-dota-matchmaking-faq-part-1/
This often happens because you are just matched to fit the game. Your MMR does go up when you win and down when you lose. But you need to be solidly in Very High to get there regularly. Matches have to deal with the players people choose to put on their teams.
Supposed 5 people que up together. 1 is Gold, 2 Platinum, 2 Diamond. They could easily go to Very High. Matching will select against them 5 people 1 Gold (lets say you), 2 Platinum, 2 Diamond. So even though you might be 4 wins short of Very High rating you are in the game against them. If you won that game and 3 more in a row, then you would start queing into Very High maybe half the time. If you kept winning you stay up high in MMR and mostly go to Very High games. If not MMR goes back down and usually you will que into HIgh games with the occasional Very High if you are close to the line.
"That being said, if the vast majority of your solo queue games are in Very High, then it’s likely that your personal rating is very close to the top 3% of the playerbase."
I know that u r not a very high skilled player if u got 1 or 2 games in the very high bracket (where u que with a VH skilled player)
I made my friends all to climb to H brackets, and they think its because they r getting better, and not because they r playing with me
Yeah I have plenty of Very High since I have so many games, but its maybe <5% of games. I really don't belong there. I should be near the top of High. On the other hand I've been playing with lower players and loseing games on heroes I don't know recently so I'm queing mostly into Normal these past couple weeks. These things can change in few games of win or loss streak.
I am actually really shocked, u missed some spelling right there
"and loseing games"
HOW THE HELL, RELENTLESS MISS SPELLING, THE WORLD WILL END !!
Don't think I am trying to bash u, no, but ur writings r really impressive, and I always try dig to get some mistake in ur writings, and I accomplished something here :D
Thanks, but its a bit artificially enhanced. Those edits you will see on pretty much everything I write - all almost always going back and proofreading it once quickly.
hello everynyan
win streaks get u into very high the eziest
i played on a new account - 0 games - won 15 games in a row - made it to top game matchmaking while duo queueing
^ LEGEND IS BACK ON TEH FORUM
He maybe commented once or twice on this forum, not sure wut do u mean by "IS BACK ON TEH FORUM"
The Dotabuff forum really only has one rule.
[1] Nothing that is written can fail to be criticized.
+1 to relentless..
Though I think he is targetting me but it is ok
You are on the forum, so yes. But I'm targeting myself and everyone else too.
Thank you very much for answers. I guess I'll have to tryhard more.
Pick Storm, SF, QOP or some other hero you can go mid with and stomp the shit out of the enemy.
Bad news 4 u, bro. U are low skill player=)
What are you talking about, murs and his gay friends were pretty active here few months ago O;
+ he was nr.1 ranked player by % for a while
+ him, kobocha, swiftending and Vaikiss were best players that ever posted here
If you want to escape the braindead range, try queuing CM only for a while. It gets rid of the moronic autoattackers, at least, and you can actually work your way up to a point where you get vaguely competent teams on a reliable basis.
@Iareyou, pretty sure kobocha is more active and is a lot better than both those guys. Murs was only top before anyone tried making a smurf account to get to top 50.
@Relentless, do you understand that individually matching players does not work in a game like Dota? Imagine if your lower ranked player was mid, while the opponent's was the offlane, and your best player was a hard support, while the enemy best player completely shat all over your mid player. You simply cannot have a large variance in player skill in dota, you need to all be around a similar bracket for it to make any sense at all, especially with hidden ratings, because you have absolutely no idea who your shit ally is until its already too late.
kk i edited my post